What do Religious people say to this?

[lemondiesel]

I would like to share this article with you guys, and please, do not bash me. I am in no way trying to disprove/prove, argue/agree with any of you. I am just wondering what religious people thoughts are about this.

guardian.co.uk/science/2010/may/20/craig-venter-synthetic-life-form
Please, take the time to read it, because it is actually very, very interesting, and well, historic.
“defining moment in the history of biology and biotechnology”, Mark Bedau, a philosopher at Reed College in Portland, Oregon, told Science.

Could this suggest the Almighty is even less impressive than previously thought.

Maybe the wrong forum to ask, but could this also bring the issue of maybe this is what happened to us?

 

[tonyrey]

The researchers **have not created artificial life **but constructed a bacterium’s “genetic software” and transplanted it into a host cell - an existing bacterium that causes mastitis in goats. The fact that it took 20 scientists with all their knowledge, expertise and equipment more than 10 years at an estimated cost of $40m to achieve this feat demonstrates the absurdity of the Chance hypothesis…

 

[pcg2]

I would like to share this article with you guys, and please, do not bash me. I am in no way trying to disprove/prove, argue/agree with any of you. I am just wondering what religious people thoughts are about this.

guardian.co.uk/science/2010/may/20/craig-venter-synthetic-life-form
Please, take the time to read it, because it is actually very, very interesting, and well, historic.
“defining moment in the history of biology and biotechnology”, Mark Bedau, a philosopher at Reed College in Portland, Oregon, told Science.

Could this suggest the Almighty is even less impressive than previously thought.

Maybe the wrong forum to ask, but could this also bring the issue of maybe this is what happened to us?

Even if they had managed to create life, it still would not have been that impressive. God created matter itself, out of nothing. He didn’t need to use pre-existing materials to create us… he actually created the materials Himself.

Had the scientists managed to create matter out of nothing, then that would be a little more problematic. But even then still, you would have the problem of the scientists having had to use pre-existent matter to create new matter, and so on and so forth.

Interesting article, though.

 

[Wowbagger]

It’s pretty cool stuff. There’s nothing about the creation of artificial life that challenges any Catholic belief, and it’s darned impressive to boot. Of course, one always worries a little bit that each new advance in biotech brings us closer to the bioethical apocalypse… but I suppose with the mass harvesting of living human embryos on the federal dime, that apocalypse has already arrived. And this particular advance is really not worrying.

So, yeah. Cool. That’s my reaction as a religious person.

It doesn’t suggest much about the impressiveness about the Almighty, though. When scientists are able to create matter itself ex nihilo, that will be the day I start questioning the awesomeness of God.

 

[stuart12]

Even if they had managed to create life, it still would not have been that impressive. God created matter itself, out of nothing. He didn’t need to use pre-existing materials to create us… he actually created the materials Himself.

Had the scientists managed to create matter out of nothing, then that would be a little more problematic. But even then still, you would have the problem of the scientists having had to use pre-existent matter to create new matter, and so on and so forth.

Interesting article, though.

That is exactly what I thought when I heard about this yesterday. All scientists can do is ‘make’, ‘put together’, ‘alter’, they can not create simply by willing it.

 

[Luke_K]

They didn’t make anything from scratch, by which I mean they didn’t synthesize any cellular molecules or DNA from basic chemicals. They just rearranged living matter that already existed. This isn’t a threat to religion in any way.

If in the future we advance to the point where we can actually synthesize cells using a bottom-up approach, it would still not threaten theism. It would actually support it. It would show that intelligent minds are capable of directing matter to act towards a purposeful end, and that the universe’s physical laws are such that diverse, unified, and interacting chemicals separated by large distances can all act towards a purposeful end.

 

[rwillenborg]

I heard about this at work, but I haven’t had a chance to read the article in Science yet.
Hopefully I’ll get to it tomorrow!
I’ve met Craig Venter, briefly. He spoke at a conference I attended. (Did I mention I’m a geneticist? That might clear things up a bit…) Anyway, the primary researcher on my project at the time was kind of a big shot, and has known Craig for years, so I was able to chat with him for awhile about his research. He’s a nice enough fellow.
Anyway…I’m afraid I don’t understand what you postulated in your original post. How would this suggest that the ‘Almighty is less impressive than previously thought’? I’m afraid I just don’t understand your question (I finish the 23rd grade, and I still don’t get basic questions. Go figure! LOL)

 

[jmcrae]

When scientists are able to create matter itself ex nihilo, that will be the day I start questioning the awesomeness of God.

Ditto.

The other thing that this experiment seems to indicate, is that it takes a certain degree of intelligence and organizational skill to make this sort of thing work. It could not have simply “caused itself.”

 

[lemondiesel]

Ditto.

The other thing that this experiment seems to indicate, is that it takes a certain degree of intelligence and organizational skill to make this sort of thing work. It could not have simply “caused itself.”

wow lol that is an excellent idea

 

[tjm190]

Maybe the wrong forum to ask, but could this also bring the issue of maybe this is what happened to us?

That what happened to us? That we were designed by aliens? Seems even less plausible then ID- although I suppose it’s just another form of ID.

 

[lemondiesel]

That what happened to us? That we were designed by aliens? Seems even less plausible then ID- although I suppose it’s just another form of ID.

I was meaning more along that we were created by an “all knowing conscious” meaning God? I mean if we are conscious and can create life from basic chemicals, what was needed to ultimately make us? Nothing?

 

[Just_Lurking]

Imagine a fancy watch. Show it to people and they will be impressed at how such a small device can accurately keep time. Now flip the watch over and take it apart, and see all the gears and springs moving around to accomplish the task of keeping time. In my experience, there are two kinds of people: The first kind will be less impressed with the watch after discovering how it works–e.g., they will say, “it’s just a bunch of gears”. The second kind will be more impressed after discovering how the watch works–e.g. they will say, “it’s amazing that it can keep time accurately no matter what direction you hold it, and it’s even more amazing that it does that will a bunch of gears”.

I’m in the second group, so this discovery just makes God’s creation even more amazing. Not only did God create us, but he did it with simple atoms, and made us intelligent enough to be able to figure out how those atoms work.

For the first group, this discovery is like someone ruining a magician’s trick by explaining the illusion. But since I’m in the second group, I don’t see why more knowledge means I still can’t be impressed by the magician’s skill as I was before I knew how the trick worked.

 

[rwillenborg]

I was meaning more along that we were created by an “all knowing conscious” meaning God? I mean if we are conscious and can create life from basic chemicals, what was needed to ultimately make us? Nothing?

I’m not sure how you infer that…
these life forms were created by intelligent, conscious beings
So, US, as life forms, you conclude were made by nothing?
I’m not sure how this article supports or even suggests that view?
If, in your analogy, us = these organisms created by Venter, then how does Venter is your analogy = nothing? At the very least, though he’s certainly not all-knowing, he certainly knows quite a bit, and I think he would also argue that he is conscious, so… see how I’m confused?

Anyway, I had a chance to read the article today in Science. There are reasons I get annoyed with newspaper coverage of science, and the fact that they mostly get stuff wrong is one of them. Well, I can go into more detail later, but the paper left out ALOT of important details about this ‘discovery’. I can write about them later, though.

 

[JohnCS]

Some folks at the Vatican say that it shows how wonderful God is that he made us so intelligent! If this new technology is used for good, then awesome, but they warned that if they start trying to play god then it is not so good. They almost sounded like the Spider Man movie where the uncles says “with great power comes great responsibility”. Only they used knowlege not power.

 

[Black_Rose]

I’m not sure how you infer that…
these life forms were created by intelligent, conscious beings
So, US, as life forms, you conclude were made by nothing?
I’m not sure how this article supports or even suggests that view?
If, in your analogy, us = these organisms created by Venter, then how does Venter is your analogy = nothing? At the very least, though he’s certainly not all-knowing, he certainly knows quite a bit, and I think he would also argue that he is conscious, so… see how I’m confused?

Anyway, I had a chance to read the article today in Science. There are reasons I get annoyed with newspaper coverage of science, and the fact that they mostly get stuff wrong is one of them. Well, I can go into more detail later, but the paper left out ALOT of important details about this ‘discovery’. I can write about them later, though.

Could you point out details since I am also discontented with the media’s coverage on complex scientific topics because I do not have access to the *Science *paper.

 

[Moonstruck888]

The researchers **have not created artificial life **but constructed a bacterium’s “genetic software” and transplanted it into a host cell - an existing bacterium that causes mastitis in goats. The fact that it took 20 scientists with all their knowledge, expertise and equipment more than 10 years at an estimated cost of $40m to achieve this feat demonstrates the absurdity of the Chance hypothesis…

I’ve never heard of the chance hypothesis.

Which journal was it in please?

 

[Lypher]

It’s pretty cool stuff. There’s nothing about the creation of artificial life that challenges any Catholic belief, and it’s darned impressive to boot. Of course, one always worries a little bit that each new advance in biotech brings us closer to the bioethical apocalypse… but I suppose with the mass harvesting of living human embryos on the federal dime, that apocalypse has already arrived. And this particular advance is really not worrying.

So, yeah. Cool. That’s my reaction as a religious person.

It doesn’t suggest much about the impressiveness about the Almighty, though. When scientists are able to create matter itself ex nihilo, that will be the day I start questioning the awesomeness of God.

Out of Nothing would mean not even using energy, from this or any other dimension, or use of any matter or anti-matter, not even vacuum could be used. I don’t see how it could be done as anything you can think of in this universe would have been created as a result of God’s true creation of substance from nothing. But if it could be done on even a tiny scale it would be an amazing feat…to create even one atom would be a feat of biblical proportions, but so limited that it really would not compare to our God. Just thinking about the amount of energy needed to produce the “Big Bang” that created the amount of mass in the entire universe is so mind numbing that it really is hard to think in terms so large.

 

[ZDHayden]

I would like to share this article with you guys, and please, do not bash me. I am in no way trying to disprove/prove, argue/agree with any of you. I am just wondering what religious people thoughts are about this.

guardian.co.uk/science/2010/may/20/craig-venter-synthetic-life-form
Please, take the time to read it, because it is actually very, very interesting, and well, historic.
“defining moment in the history of biology and biotechnology”, Mark Bedau, a philosopher at Reed College in Portland, Oregon, told Science.

Could this suggest the Almighty is even less impressive than previously thought.

Maybe the wrong forum to ask, but could this also bring the issue of maybe this is what happened to us?

COOL! I personally do not think that it makes God less impressive, as I believe in evolution. God provided the materials and the process – and He has given us the intelligence to use to accomplish something like this! As have been previously stated, I hope this is used to help humanity.

 

[lemondiesel]

COOL! I personally do not think that it makes God less impressive, as I believe in evolution. God provided the materials and the process – and He has given us the intelligence to use to accomplish something like this! As have been previously stated, I hope this is used to help humanity.

“God” IS the materials** AND** the process