What does "traditional (not Roman) Catholic" mean

[bear06]

That’s horrible that you would choose an invalid and sacrilegious “Cowboy Mass” instead of a beautiful Traditional Latin Mass.

What can I say? I think it horrible to be attracted to something illicit. I’d rather suffer with Our Lord and be repulsed.

I’d much rather follow the orthodox SSPX bishops than the American bishops who go against Church teaching when it comes to the death penalty, don’t do anything about all the immodesty in their churches, are too timid (for the most part) to tell Kerry and other “Catholics” that they can’t receive the Eucharist, and ordain gay priests. I could go on.

My “American bishop” does follow the Church teachings.

Actually, my post wasn’t like Luke’s

I didn’t say it was like Luke’s. What I said was that he probably believed very much like you at one point.

I

was saying that I never heard of the Masons until I switched to the TLM with the SSPX, I dressed immodestly, and I almost never heard about saints during sermons. Their confessions are better - the penance is more than just “pray a few Our Fathers”. Now I wear a veil, dress more modestly than I ever have, and receive God on my tongue instead of touching Him with my dirty hands.

Like I said, I have all of this at my parish - just not the schism, illicit Mass, etc.

 

[bear06]

Orthodox is not a term I would use to describe bishop Williamson of the SSPX. Anti-semitic, Holocaust-denying, woman-hating (“no girl should go to any university!”) are much more accurate.

Whoa! I don’t know about all of the above but I do know that he’s a lover of the “Poem of the Man-God”. That’s enough for me. A lovely, little (that’s sarcastic by the way), sensual series on Christ’s life that’s on the Catholic Church’s list of banned books.

 

[Topher]

Look, you can’t be orthodox and a member of the saint pius X society. To be a member of a SCHISMATIC group you must deny some aspect of the Church’s authority and to do so is heresey. Being a schismatic always is accompanied by being a heretic is some way. Personal I would rather stick with Christ’s One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

 

[Topher]

mamabear7:

That’s horrible that you would choose an invalid and sacrilegious “Cowboy Mass” instead of a beautiful Traditional Latin Mass.

I’d much rather follow the orthodox SSPX bishops than the American bishops who go against Church teaching when it comes to the death penalty, don’t do anything about all the immodesty in their churches, are too timid (for the most part) to tell Kerry and other “Catholics” that they can’t receive the Eucharist, and ordain gay priests. I could go on.

Actually, my post wasn’t like Luke’s. I was saying that I never heard of the Masons until I switched to the TLM with the SSPX, I dressed immodestly, and I almost never heard about saints during sermons. Their confessions are better - the penance is more than just “pray a few Our Fathers”. Now I wear a veil, dress more modestly than I ever have, and receive God on my tongue instead of touching Him with my dirty hands.

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne

That is right now you love Jesus more than anyone because you wear a veil. What does Jesus call that? Oh yeah, legalism. And he had no patience for it. And you dare recieve Jesus on your tongue! Tsk Tsk Tsk. your tongue is even dirtier than your hands.
I am sorry but Jesus has appeared to the saints and time and time again reiterated the fact that obedience is his favorite virtue and he always speaks of this obedience in refernce to one’s authorities in the Church. Since the Saint Pius X society, and its members, are in schism that means that they are not being obedient to the Church and thus they are not practicing Jesus’ favorite virtue. I personally will stick with Christ and his Church. “As for me and my household, we will server the LORD.”

 

[palmas85]

Topher:

That is right now you love Jesus more than anyone because you wear a veil. What does Jesus call that? Oh yeah, legalism. And he had no patience for it. And you dare recieve Jesus on your tongue! Tsk Tsk Tsk. your tongue is even dirtier than your hands.
I am sorry but Jesus has appeared to the saints and time and time again reiterated the fact that obedience is his favorite virtue and he always speaks of this obedience in refernce to one’s authorities in the Church. Since the Saint Pius X society, and its members, are in schism that means that they are not being obedient to the Church and thus they are not practicing Jesus’ favorite virtue. I personally will stick with Christ and his Church. “As for me and my household, we will server the LORD.”

What exactly is this “legalism” term that you throw around and how did Jesus have no patience for it? You actually kind of have me stumped on that.

 

[DaLuke]

palmas85:

I have heard for years that the indult is not needed or required. However, even if the “official” word may be it is not needed, I would seriously doubt that any priest would celebrate one unless his Bishop said he could. And to be honest, I’m not real sure on the Vatican saying it’s all right for the Traditional Mass to be celebrated anywhere and everywhere.

Read Quo Primum.

palmas85:

Are you positive on Rome saying the SSPX Masses are valid? I’d like a link to that one.

They would have to be very dumb to deny it. If the SSPX Masses are invalid, so is every “Mass” they ever promoted from 1962 until the end of VII.

palmas85:

Howver, until I see something concrete come from the Vatican, I think I’ll stick to the indult.

The Vatican, not being Catholic, will not likely say much of anything good.
“Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist. . . . The Church will be in eclipse, the world will be in dismay” -Our Lady of La Salette, France on September 19, 1846

palmas85:

No disrespect intended, and I’m probably just as much a traditional as you and maybe more, but I still have allegiance to the Holy Father in this regard.

There has not likely been a Holy Father since the death of Pope Gregory XVII (formerly Cardinal Siri) in 1959.
Fr. Khoat: “You are the Pope, not de facto, but de jure.”
Siri: “You already know it.”
Fr. Khoat: “Come with me right now. I have two tickets to go to America where there are people who will help you.”
Siri: “That would be impossible. I cannot go. They can kill me at anytime.”

James0235:

I don’t think you understand the difference between invalid and illicit.

No, she knows well enough. The Novus Ordo and the “cowboy mass” are invalid and not Masses at all.

James0235:

Orthodox is not a term I would use to describe bishop Williamson of the SSPX. Anti-semitic,

Careful here-- Jews, just like all non-Catholics, are outside the realm of salvation. Note that this is the false religion, not the race.

James0235:

Holocaust-denying,

How does one deny the Holocaust?

James0235:

woman-hating (“no girl should go to any university!”) are much more accurate.

Really, nobody whether male or female should go to most any university today… Since females are mainly intended to do home care type work, the statement makes even more sense.

James0235:

And the mosesty required at SSPX chapels has been tied to the amount of money donated. Give enough to the SSPX and you don’t have to follow the dress requirements.

Nobody said the SSPX is perfect. They have flaws. However, that flaw is not related to their Mass validity at all.

James0235:

And there are many thousands of us here who have heard of Masons and who dress modestly (men and women) and who have learned very much about the Saints in sermons and who have not once set foot in an SSPX chapel.

That doesn’t make you Catholic.

Topher:

Look, you can’t be orthodox and a member of the saint pius X society. To be a member of a SCHISMATIC group you must deny some aspect of the Church’s authority and to do so is heresey.

Except that they are not truly schismatic-- just confused.

Topher:

Personal I would rather stick with Christ’s One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

Then why not attend their Masses? Benedict’s one-world religion is Satan’s plagiarism of the Catholic Church.

Anyway, “Catholic Answers”, while pretending to be Catholic is in reality quite anti-Catholic… as a result, I will likely be banned again after this post. Since I’d much rather not go to the trouble to change my IP address and recreate a new username to bypass their ban (while it is worth the trouble to possibly save some more souls, I’d rather avoid it when possible), if anyone has a honest reply to me (eg, actually interested in Catholicism or even debating), please send it to luke_catholicism@dashjr.org
Thanks.

 

[Genesis315]

DaLuke:

Read Quo Primum.

I have. The same language is used when the breviary was previously edited and St. Pius V changed it himself afterward. In perpetuity means indefinitely. No one is allowed to change it does not apply to future popes. Like I said before, the same language was used in regard to the breviary and St. Pius V changed it himself anyway.

Either way, the SSPX deny the First Vatican Council. They believe they can do something (consecrate bishops and priests) when the pope says no without putting their souls in grave, grave danger.

piar.hu/councils/ecum20.htm

1. • Wherefore we teach and declare that,
   • by divine ordinance,
   • the Roman church possesses a pre-eminence of ordinary power over every other church, and that
   • this jurisdictional power of the Roman pontiff is both
   • episcopal and
   • immediate.
   • **Both clergy and faithful, **
   • **of whatever rite and dignity, **
   • **both singly and collectively, **
   • **are bound to submit to this power by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and this **
   • not only in matters concerning faith and morals,
   • but also in those which regard the discipline and government of the church throughout the world.
   1. • In this way, by unity with the Roman pontiff in communion and in profession of the same faith , the church of Christ becomes one flock under one supreme shepherd [50] .
      • This is the teaching of the catholic truth, and no one can depart from it without endangering his faith and salvation.

 

[bear06]

Thank God someone else is quoting Pastor Aeternus! I think people were a little tired of me doing it!

 

[carol_marie]

Da Luke,

I received your private message but I honestly have no idea what you are even talking about… I’ve only been Catholic for a few months - and I’m VERY VERY happy and I don’t know what SSPX means but since I thought it was something we weren’t supposed to even talk about on CA, I’m thinking it’s not something I’d be interested in.

I love my Church & I love the mass & I love my Priests. My question only had to do with some Nuns who bake croisannts…

not any of what you messaged me about. And now I see that you also posted here… so why send to me privately?

Anyhow… thanks… but no thanks.
God Bless,
CM

 

[carol_marie]

I had no idea what a can of ugly worms I was opening when I posted my original question. PLEASE… forget I asked. All of this fighting over who’s mass is right is so not what God would have his children doing!

 

[Genesis315]

bear06:

Thank God someone else is quoting Pastor Aeternus! I think people were a little tired of me doing it!

The First Vatican Council is great but it often gets overlooked because the Second Vatican Council came so close on its heels and received so much (positive, negative, and often misinformed) attention.

 

[James0235]

carol marie:

I had no idea what a can of ugly worms I was opening when I posted my original question. PLEASE… forget I asked. All of this fighting over who’s mass is right is so not what God would have his children doing!

Wow! This thread really got off topic. You didn’t open an ugly can of worms. That was done by others.

And Da Luke sent me a private message too. He probably sent it to everyone who had posted in this thread. He’s afraid his insane anti-Catholic rantings will be deleted from this thread by the moderators so he sent it to everyone so they’d still see it.

God bless,

James

 

[palmas85]

James0235:

Wow! This thread really got off topic. You didn’t open an ugly can of worms. That was done by others.

And Da Luke sent me a private message too. He probably sent it to everyone who had posted in this thread. He’s afraid his insane anti-Catholic rantings will be deleted from this thread by the moderators so he sent it to everyone so they’d still see it.

God bless,

James

Yep he got me too. While I don’t agree with everything that has happened after Vatican II and do truly feel that the Church needs to take a good hard look at things, people like this give everybody with Traditional leanings a very bad name. I can guarantee that most Traditionalist, even those classified as Ulltra Traditionalist like me , do not subscribe to his thinking and beliefs.

 

[Genesis315]

I didn’t get a PM, I feel left out

I go to the Tridentine Mass every Sunday and I don’t know anyone there who subscribes to that stuff DaLuke was talking about. I guess since it’s a Mass done with permission, his type doesn’t show up.

Either way, the arguments the SSPX try to use to justify their postion are unteneble and forced.

 

[bear06]

Genesis315:

The First Vatican Council is great but it often gets overlooked because the Second Vatican Council came so close on its heels and received so much (positive, negative, and often misinformed) attention.

Pastor Aeternus is one of my favorite documents. It was the Pope’s attempt to keep Jansenism from rearing it’s ugly head again. I think it should come out with every council. I think that this document gets overlooked because people want to overlook it. It’s so simple, straightforward, etc. Some people just don’t want to obey it.

Believe it or not, I live in an area with a Pius V church. I’m sure they’re few and far between. Even the SSPX think they’ve gone overboard.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

mamabear7:

Dr. Bombay, you said that in Kansas City the bishop recently started a Traditional Latin Mass. There was already one at my parish, St. Vincent de Paul, which is run by the SSPX. It’s a very beautiful church and the priests give excellent sermons.

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne

I’m sure it is a beautiful church. It’s the one my parents were married in back in 1957. I shall not, however, be attending Mass there until the SSPX regularizes its position with the Holy See. And even then, I might not. Prideful defiance of lawful authority is troubling to me, whether it comes from the left or the right.

And perhaps you’d like to share with our fellow boardies exactly how the SSPX came into possession of that beautiful church of St. Vincent De Paul…hmmmmm??? I’m sure most would find the tale edifying.

 

[James0235]

Dr. Bombay:

And perhaps you’d like to share with our fellow boardies exactly how the SSPX came into possession of that beautiful church of St. Vincent De Paul…hmmmmm??? I’m sure most would find the tale edifying.

You’ve certainly piqued my curiosity. I’d love to hear the story.

James

 

[Dr.Bombay]

James0235:

You’ve certainly piqued my curiosity. I’d love to hear the story.

James

Well, mamabear7, how about it? Since you’re the devotee of the SSPX chapel, let’s hear it.

I’m curious myself to see how the insider’s view differs from the outsider’s. :yup:

 

[L-u-k-e]

Genesis315:

Either way, the SSPX deny the First Vatican Council. They believe they can do something (consecrate bishops and priests) when the pope says no without putting their souls in grave, grave danger.

As I said, they are confused. Their denial of the Vatican Council is a result of their ignorance of the invalidity of the Conciliarist antipopes. Sure, there was a bit lack of evidence back when they started, but that doesn’t justify their continued ignorance of reality now that there is plenty of evidence.

piar.hu/councils/ecum20.htm

• Wherefore we teach and declare that,
• by divine ordinance,
• the Roman church possesses a pre-eminence of ordinary power over every other church, and that
• this jurisdictional power of the Roman pontiff is both
• episcopal and
• immediate.
• **Both clergy and faithful, **
• **of whatever rite and dignity, **
• **both singly and collectively, **
• **are bound to submit to this power by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and this * not only in matters concerning faith and morals,
• but also in those which regard the discipline and government of the church throughout the world.**
• In this way, by unity with the Roman pontiff in communion and in profession of the same faith , the church of Christ becomes one flock under one supreme shepherd [50] .
• This is the teaching of the catholic truth, and no one can depart from it without endangering his faith and salvation.

Thanks. That should be useful for convincing SSPX adherents of the reality of the situation.
carol marie:

I received your private message but I honestly have no idea what you are even talking about…

“traditional (not Roman) Catholic” likely refers to a real Catholic, as opposed to one who claims to be Catholic when they really are not.
carol marie:

I’ve only been Catholic for a few months - and I’m VERY VERY happy and I don’t know what SSPX means

The Church serves the Truth (God), not your own personal comfort level. From the sounds of it, you are Conciliar, not Catholic-- no matter what your ‘priest’ may be telling you.
carol marie:

but since I thought it was something we weren’t supposed to even talk about on CA, I’m thinking it’s not something I’d be interested in.

Catholicism is generally off-limits for discussion in CAF. They only permit Conciliarism, the one-world religion of Satan’s.
carol marie:

I love my Church & I love the mass & I love my Priests.

It would be better to love Christ’s Church, His one, true Mass, and priests who serve Him.
carol marie:

My question only had to do with some Nuns who bake croisannts…

Who likely are Catholic, from the sound of it.
carol marie:

not any of what you messaged me about. And now I see that you also posted here… so why send to me privately?

Because, from past experience, the CAF mods will generally delete any Catholic posts.
carol marie:

Anyhow… thanks… but no thanks.

I hope the Lord leads you to His Church before it is too late. I advise you to research the truth and not harden your heart from it. If you email me, I would be glad to supply you with evidence supporting claims or to answer any questions.

James0235:

And Da Luke sent me a private message too. He probably sent it to everyone who had posted in this thread. He’s afraid his insane anti-Catholic rantings will be deleted from this thread by the moderators so he sent it to everyone so they’d still see it.

I know from experience that the CAF moderators generally do delete any Catholic posts.

Genesis315:

I didn’t get a PM, I feel left out

Sorry, I tried to get everyone, but I had to go to work and such…

Dr.Bombay:

And perhaps you’d like to share with our fellow boardies exactly how the SSPX came into possession of that beautiful church of St. Vincent De Paul…hmmmmm??? I’m sure most would find the tale edifying.

With Vatican II, the Conciliarists sold it to some Baptist heretics. 20 years ago, the SSPX bought it from them. That’s what they tell people, anyway… if you know otherwise, why not share it?

P.S. Anti-Catholic mods, don’t bother trying to ban me-- the best you could do is ban my ISP and then I will simply use a proxy off-ISP. If I need to bother replying, that is… hopefully this will be my last post. Even though you’ve apparently hardened your own hearts, thanks for at least allowing those who are still innocent to have a chance of hearing the truth.