What essential parts of Christianity are not found in Scripture?

[BouleTheou]

What am I missing by believing that all special revelation from God about the Christian faith is in the Bible?

Thanks,

BouleTheou

 

[The_Barrister]

BouleTheou:

What am I missing by believing that all special revelation from God about the Christian faith is in the Bible?

Thanks,

BouleTheou

PIck up a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Very enlightening.

 

[prodromos]

BouleTheou:

What am I missing by believing that all special revelation from God about the Christian faith is in the Bible?

How to worship God?
To clarify, the early church didn’t just produce the bible, it also produced liturgical worship which was a direct follow on from the Jewish temple worship. The early church also produced many new hymns, at least one of which is still sung in the Orthodox church today.

 

[JPrejean]

What am I missing by believing that all special revelation from God about the Christian faith is in the Bible?

Nothing; there are Catholics who believe in material sufficiency as well. However, there is certainly no guarantee that you will be able to discern the significance and meaning of that revelation from the text alone without access to the tradition of the Church.

 

[Tom]

BouleTheou:

What am I missing by believing that all special revelation from God about the Christian faith is in the Bible?

You’re missing the meaning of our Lord’s Words to you, and the truth. During the last supper, while Jesus had His Church assembled, He told the Church that He would leave them the Holy Spirit. John 14; 14, 15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another Advocate to be with you always, 17 the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you. 14,26 The Advocate, the Holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name – he will teach you everything and remind you of all that I told you.
This Holy Spirit has been with His Church since He established it. As He said, the Advocate will be with His Church always. It hasn’t departed and it hasn’t been silent for the past 2,000 years. To listen to the Catholic Church is to listen to the Spirit of God.

 

[Scott_Waddell]

Let me suggest this Dave Armstrong dialogue: The Sufficiency of Scripture and the Church Fathers

A sample:

You are confusing material with formal sufficiency. The doctrine can be proven from Scripture, indeed (material sufficiency), but Scripture Alone as a principle was not formally sufficient to prevent the Arian crisis from occurring. In other words, the decisive factor in these controversies was the appeal to apostolic succession and Tradition, which showed that the Church had always been trinitarian. The Arians could not appeal to any such tradition because their christology was a heretical innovation of the 4th century.

The Arians thus appealed to Scripture Alone. And that is the point Catholics make about this. The Arian formal principle was deficient, so that they could appeal to the Bible Alone and come up with Arianism (just like Jehovah’s Witnesses do today). If they had held also to an authoritative Sacred Tradition, this could not have happened because the “tradition of Arianism” was non-existent.

I would also go on to state that the full development of trinitarianism and christology in practice was post-biblical and post-apostolic, extending up to the Council of Chalcedon in 451 and even later in some respects (Monothelete christological heresy, etc.).

Scott

 

[BouleTheou]

Scott Waddell -

How can someone know with certainty whether the Material Sufficiency view or the partim-partim view is the correct one?

BouleTheou

 

[BouleTheou]

prodromos -

How to worship God?

So, the Bible does not contain how to worship God?

BouleTheou

 

[Scott_Waddell]

BouleTheou:

Scott Waddell -

How can someone know with certainty whether the Material Sufficiency view or the partim-partim view is the correct one?

BouleTheou

I’m not following. Please elaborate.

Scott

 

[BouleTheou]

Scott -

You don’t know what the difference is between “Material Sufficiency” and “partim-partim?” If not, I’ll explain it to you.

Thanks,

BouleTheou

 

[Exporter]

Boule,

I notice that you ask a question. A poster gives you an answer. Then you seem to ignore the answer and you ask another question.

Perhaps you will gain more with a two-way conversation than the one-way method you have pursued.

 

[JPrejean]

How can someone know with certainty whether the Material Sufficiency view or the partim-partim view is the correct one?

It doesn’t matter. Whether Scripture is the sole source of revelation that is illuminated by Tradition or whether Tradition is a separate source of revelation is a purely theoretical question. We have access to both, so there’s no need to decide the question.

 

[SteveT]

What essential parts of Christianity are not found in scripture?

How about the canon of scripture?

 

[JimG]

SteveT:

What essential parts of Christianity are not found in scripture?

How about the canon of scripture?

Yes, that’s true. Catholics do believe in the material sufficiency of scripture.
But the canon of scripture is certainly not contained anywhere in scripture.

And also: If Scripture were formally sufficient, no preaching should be necessary. All that should be required is to pass out bibles, with no further instruction. Everyone reading those bibles then should come to the correct doctrine and faith.

But that doesn’t happen does it? People reading those bibles will reach widely varying conclusions! How could that be? It is because the bible itself doesn’t “teach” anything. It doesn’t tap your shoulder and say, “wait a minute, you misunderstood. That’s not what I meant.”

That’s why Jesus left us a Church.

 

[Scott_Waddell]

BouleTheou:

Scott -

You don’t know what the difference is between “Material Sufficiency” and “partim-partim?” If not, I’ll explain it to you.

Thanks,

BouleTheou

I have a grasp of the difference, I was just looking for clarification pehaps with an example.

Scott

 

[rheins2000]

Many, many…and that is why the bible itself tells us that there were many more things that Jesus tought, which if they were related here, it would take up all of the books in the world(not word for word obviously, but thats the jist of it.)

 

[BouleTheou]

exporter -

On the threads I’ve posted on, it’s usually something like 12 Catholics against 1 me. Have patience…

BouleTheou

 

[BouleTheou]

Stevet -

How about the canon of scripture?

Are you saying then that Jesus told his disciples before He left, and then John told Ignatius, “now, eventually, you’ll have Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, etc…” ?

BouleTheou

 

[BouleTheou]

Many, many…and that is why the bible itself tells us that there were many more things that Jesus tought, which if they were related here, it would take up all of the books in the world(not word for word obviously, but thats the jist of it.)

Give me some examples of essential doctrines of the Christian faith which are not taught in the pages of Scripture. What did Jesus say outside of Scripture which we who trust in Scripture alone as the sole infallible rule of faith need to know?

BouleTheou

 

[The_Barrister]

JimG:

Yes, that’s true. Catholics do believe in the material sufficiency of scripture.
But the canon of scripture is certainly not contained anywhere in scripture.

And also: If Scripture were formally sufficient, no preaching should be necessary. All that should be required is to pass out bibles, with no further instruction. Everyone reading those bibles then should come to the correct doctrine and faith.

But that doesn’t happen does it? People reading those bibles will reach widely varying conclusions! How could that be? It is because the bible itself doesn’t “teach” anything. It doesn’t tap your shoulder and say, “wait a minute, you misunderstood. That’s not what I meant.”

That’s why Jesus left us a Church.

Wonderful analysis, Jim. :clapping: