What happened to Limbo?

[wanner47]

What happened to Limbo? The hallucination was just treated. Limbo is the hallucination of some of the Church Fathers. It was never part of the dogma of the Catholic Church. Remember this, just like everyone else, the Church Fathers can also commit mistakes in their beliefs. In fact they were hallucinated by the idea of a limbo. Only the Magisterium can proclaim formally infallible teachings on faith and morals.

This seems to be bordering on heretical, as the Church states it is permissible for the faithful to believe that Limbo exists (something She wouldn’t do if Limbo were merely a “hallucination”).

 

[mdgspencer]

I don’t think this borders on heretical, though personally I like to look at the Fathers of the Church with respect.

 

[TomD123]

What happened to Limbo? The hallucination was just treated. Limbo is the hallucination of some of the Church Fathers. It was never part of the dogma of the Catholic Church. Remember this, just like everyone else, the Church Fathers can also commit mistakes in their beliefs. In fact they were hallucinated by the idea of a limbo. Only the Magisterium can proclaim formally infallible teachings on faith and morals.

Its not a hallucination, most members of the Church have held this opinion for a long time. It was a theory but this is because there is a dogma, and that is a soul who dies in original sin goes to hell. The other dogma is that water baptism is the only remedy we have for original sin, so theologians thought God is merciful so he would not send the infants who die without personal sin to the part of hell with the harsh suffering, he would send them to the fringe of hell (ie limbo) where there would actually be rejoicing.

So limbo is not a dogma, it is a theory based on other dogmas. If unbaptized infants get to heaven, it is because original sin is removed by God in his mercy, in a way he has not revealed to us, and this is speculation that is allowed by the Church.

 

[Kyrby_Caluna]

Its not a hallucination, most members of the Church have held this opinion for a long time. It was a theory but this is because there is a dogma, and that is a soul who dies in original sin goes to hell. The other dogma is that water baptism is the only remedy we have for original sin, so theologians thought God is merciful so he would not send the infants who die without personal sin to the part of hell with the harsh suffering, he would send them to the fringe of hell (ie limbo) where there would actually be rejoicing.

So limbo is not a dogma, it is a theory based on other dogmas. If unbaptized infants get to heaven, it is because original sin is removed by God in his mercy, in a way he has not revealed to us, and this is speculation that is allowed by the Church.

A theory? Hahaha! By whom? By the Church Fathers? Are they more reliable than the Magisterium? The Magisterium did not even have in mind to make Limbo a dogma. Remember, our faith is a REVEALED religion with DIVINE revelations that are already COMPLETE since the time of the apostles. So theory is never really PERMISSIBLE or ACCEPTABLE in our beliefs.

 

[RobbyS]

Okay, so I was reading the Catechism and came across this:

I thought everyone who was not baptized (of water, will, or blood) went to Hell because their inherited original sin had not been cleansed and that those below the age of reason went to a place in Hell called Limbo where they were not tormented as much as the other parts of Hell.

Would believing in Limbo now be heretical considering that the Church says that we can hope for their salvation? And how can Catechism 1261 be reconciled with the earlier teachings of the Church that one cannot go to heaven (or purgatory for that matter) without baptism. I’m confused.

And another question, the Catechism also says:

I understand that this would be a form of baptism (baptism of will), but my question is this: are those who do know the Gospel of Christ, but who have not been baptized by water or blood, yet seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it able to achieve the same baptism of will that those who don’t know of Christs gospel?

Limbo seems, in the end, an intellectual construct rather than a fact of Revelation. Of course, heaven, hell and purgatory are, to a degree, the same. All efforts by our still dim intellect what the saints see clearly. We are all so earthbound, literally. Our minds and spirits try to soar, but we are pulled back to earth by the weight of our sins.

As to baptism, it gives us a directlink to the ultimate site. Others just have to hunt, and surely the diligent seeker often finds, and even others sudden find what they were not looking for.

 

[Crusading_Canuk]

A theory? Hahaha! By whom? By the Church Fathers? Are they more reliable than the Magisterium? The Magisterium did not even have in mind to make Limbo a dogma. Remember, our faith is a REVEALED religion with DIVINE revelations that are already COMPLETE since the time of the apostles. So theory is never really PERMISSIBLE or ACCEPTABLE in our beliefs.

Yeah? Guess what nearly all theology is theory, some theology is inspired others is not. Theology itself is a theory, however once an ecumenical council or pope has ruled in an infallible statement we must accept the dogma, untill then theologians are free to come up with theories. Should we rule out such theories? Should we rule out theology? We could, but then we would lose some of our greatest saints, like Thomas Aquinas. Think about it!

 

[tonyrey]

Not really an agnostic; I firmly believe that God exists and that His existence can be supported by reason. It’s just that I’m deeply skeptical of all human claims to detailed knowledge about His nature.

What leads you to believe God exists?

 

[TedDC]

What leads you to believe God exists?

Simply that fact that the universe exists and the reasoning that something cannot come out of nothing, which requires the existence of a Creator.

 

[TomD123]

A theory? Hahaha! By whom? By the Church Fathers? Are they more reliable than the Magisterium? The Magisterium did not even have in mind to make Limbo a dogma. Remember, our faith is a REVEALED religion with DIVINE revelations that are already COMPLETE since the time of the apostles. So theory is never really PERMISSIBLE or ACCEPTABLE in our beliefs.

Well, the Church does not say where unbaptized infants go, true limbo is not a dogma. Theory is permissable to fill in the gaps of what has been revealed. On this topic, God revealed the following (these are de fide)

1. All are born in original sin
2. Those who die in original sin go to hell with a different type of punishment than those who die in mortal sin
3. Outside the Church, no one is saved
4. Baptism forgives original sin, gives us grace, and unites us into the Church, all of which are necessary for salvation
5. Water baptism is the only way to help infants in original sin, because baptism of blood would be rare and baptism of desire is impossible as far as we know.

This much is doctrine, theory fills in what has not been revealed. If unbaptized infants go to hell (born in original sin+death without baptism= die in original sin= hell), how can this be if God is so loving? The theory of limbo states that God gives them a special part of hell where there is natural happiness and natural virtue. The Church supports this opinion as possible, it has appeared in some Catechisms.

 

[tonyrey]

Simply that fact that the universe exists and the reasoning that something cannot come out of nothing, which requires the existence of a Creator.

Is existence good, evil or neither good nor evil?