What happened to the kingdoms that existed before the flood

[Jehanne_Darc]

I read somewhere that there is evidence of the civilizations that lived before the flood that only Noah’s family is supposed to have survived.

Where can I find more on this?

 

[Mintaka]

Which flood? There are a lot of interesting indications, but with all the major disasters there were in prehistory, it’s hard to tell which one should be identified with Noah’s flood. I mean, sheesh, the entire Mediterranean Sea used to be a dry plain back in the day, and the Mideast (especially Mesopotamia) was always having troubles. We just don’t know enough to make any definitive declarations. (Not that guessing isn’t fun.)

Rather than focusing on “before the flood”, you would probably do better to study just plain prehistory. Civilizations go back surprisingly far, and we know a lot of interesting things about them. Even people who lived in caves weren’t all that primitive; even the Neanderthals cared for their dead.

Enjoy! It’s a fascinating field.

 

[Jehanne_Darc]

Thank you. Can you advise me of some good books that treat all evidence fairly in their discourse on pre-history?

I was thinking of reading H.G. Wells anyways, just because his Outline of History is such a classic overview. What do you think?

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

Which flood? There are a lot of interesting indications, but with all the major disasters there were in prehistory, it’s hard to tell which one should be identified with Noah’s flood. I mean, sheesh, the entire Mediterranean Sea

Actually, the Med is a true ocean, though it is a dying one. It contains true abyssal depths, though now they are quite small. The straits of Gibralter have openned and closed several times since Africa collided with Europe, and they may yet close again, forming a huge dead sea.
Modern thought is that the most recent event of this type was the opening of the Bosphorus, only a few thousand years ago, only on the fringe of pre-history. Perhaps the tale of the flood is a memory of this event.
However, reading the tale, you will find that there were other survivors, quietly written around, for Noah’s children all found spouses without committing incest, (cf Lott’s daughters).

used to be a dry plain back in the day, and the Mideast (especially Mesopotamia) was always having troubles. We just don’t know enough to make any definitive declarations. (Not that guessing isn’t fun.)

Rather than focusing on “before the flood”, you would probably do better to study just plain prehistory. Civilizations go back surprisingly far, and we know a lot of interesting things about them. Even people who lived in caves weren’t all that primitive; even the Neanderthals cared for their dead.

Enjoy! It’s a fascinating field.

 

[Mintaka]

We know so much more about prehistory now than we did back in H.G. Wells’ day, it’s not even funny.

If I were you, I’d go to your local library and talk to the librarian about this stuff. I’m sure there’ll be surveys of the field available. National Geographic’s website is probably a good place to start, also.

Re: Mediterranean Sea

Okay, so geography’s not my science.

 

[adrift]

However, reading the tale, you will find that there were other survivors, quietly written around, for Noah’s children all found spouses without committing incest, (cf Lott’s daughters).

The bible does not list any other survivors but Noah and his family not even quietly written around.

7
Together with his sons, his wife, and his sons’ wives, Noah went into the ark because of the waters of the flood.

The wives were on the ark.

What happened to the people. They drowned and their civilization was wiped from the earth.

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

The bible does not list any other survivors but Noah and his family not even quietly written around.

The wives were on the ark.

What happened to the people. They drowned and their civilization was wiped from the earth.

You are right about Noah’s first generation offspring, but what of the second? Three pairs are insufficient gentic pool to avoid incest. The grandchildren MUST have found mates amongst the survivors.
Since we are talking of the opening of the Bosphorus, then this is not the whole world, but a huge area: you could put the whole of Texas in the Black Sea. Certainly, it would seem to be the whole world, and hundreds of miles would need to be covered before survivors would be found.

 

[adrift]

Three pairs are insufficient gentic pool to avoid incest. The grandchildren MUST have found mates amongst the survivors.

I see no problem in them marrying their first cousins. Didn’t Abraham marry is half sister?

 

[Joe_Kelley]

You are right about Noah’s first generation offspring, but what of the second? Three pairs are insufficient gentic pool to avoid incest. The grandchildren MUST have found mates amongst the survivors.
Since we are talking of the opening of the Bosphorus, then this is not the whole world, but a huge area: you could put the whole of Texas in the Black Sea. Certainly, it would seem to be the whole world, and hundreds of miles would need to be covered before survivors would be found.

The children of each of the three pairs would be first cousins of those of the other two pairs. First cousins are permitted to marry for just cause; it is not incest. The lack of other alternatives would seem to be just cause.

Now Genesis 6:20-24 says that all life perished. If you reject that, why do you bother accepting the rest?

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

The children of each of the three pairs would be first cousins of those of the other two pairs. First cousins are permitted to marry for just cause; it is not incest. The lack of other alternatives would seem to be just cause.

Now Genesis 6:20-24 says that all life perished. If you reject that, why do you bother accepting the rest?

First cousins breeding is not a disaster, but if we have a truely closed population, as is purported, then all subsequent pairings are of the same degree, and the result is thus incestuous. It is accepted that first cousins may pair, but that must be the exception, rather than the rule. Serious weakening of the population would occur in fewer than seven generations. Look at what has happenned to the Samaritans in less than 2000 years.
The flood was not universal, but tsunami floods have, in the past few decades occurred everywhere on the planet. We even had one in England in the 1700s, and a devastating one in Scotland some 5000 years ago. Thus all nations have tales of a flood in the ancient past, but this is not necessarily a proof of a universal flood. A Universal flooding incident would show up in the ice-cap records which go back hundreds of thousands of years. Though there are records of volcanic events, there is no record of a global, or near-global flood.
Gene pool analysis on humans dopes support a record of a serious diminution of the gene pool about 120000 years ago, due to a major volcanic incident in the Far East, where the population was reduced to a dozen or so families, but there is no indication that this affected beasts. That incident is more reminiscent of Soddom and Gommorrah. Mankind must at the time have become highly specialized, and was thus highly susceptible to a major environmental change. Other creatures were, it seems, able to adapt.