What happened to this type of religious life?

[AnneElizabeth]

Hello All,

I read that there was once many religious who were involved with important discoveries in the fields of science and medicine.   It seems to me that they were able to do this because they spent much of their time in study and also because they were devoted to God and had time to devote to listening to and praying to, and worshiping God.

I have two questions… Are there today specific orders devoted to scientific studies of any kind? (Scientific might not be the word I’m looking for here, but rather maybe any study that helps solve a problem that is occurring for that time.) and if so, is it only men’s orders?

and also…

In history would nuns have ever been involved in any sort of scientific study? Are there today contemplative or semi-contemplative orders in which there are nuns devoted to scientific studies? It seems to me that the more traditional role of a nun was to be sort of like the church’s extra hands, home-maker and nurturer, helper- the mothering role. Historically, has it ever been considered erroneous for a woman (religious or not) to get involved with the study of the sciences? If so, what was their reasoning?

Not trying to start any possible feminist-like debate here, but just wanted to know straight facts. Thanks!

-Anne Elizabeth

 

[bpbasilphx]

I think scientific study was a particular charism of the Maurist congregation of Benedictines, but I don’t know for sure.

 

[JReducation]

There are several communities of men that devote much of their life to study: Dominicans, Jesuits, Salesians, Christian Brothers, Xaverian Brothers, Benedictines.

As far as women, nuns are not involved in scientific study. But many sisters are. The Religious of the Sacred Heart, Medical Mission Sisters, many other teaching communities and medical communities.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Thanks bpbasilphx and JReducation! This helps a lot. I generally don’t have much knowledge of religious orders, only what I’ve heard from what I’ve read and seen.

Thanks again!

 

[JReducation]

Thanks bpbasilphx and JReducation! This helps a lot. I generally don’t have much knowledge of religious orders, only what I’ve heard from what I’ve read and seen.

Thanks again!

Unfortunately, many posters on CAF are just as bad as the NY Times. They post the negatives and are ignorant of the positives or forget to share this. The fact is that religious life is beginning to thrive again.

The numbers will never be what they were during the first half of the 20th century, for many reasons. But we are getting quality men and women. What is an interesting change among men is that the men who are entering today understand the difference between religious life and Holy Orders. It is a better educated man and a man who can discriminate between the two callings. So he is entering the religious community because he wants to be a religious, not because he wants to be a priest. He feels the call to the religious life.

He may also feel the call to Holy Orders, but he understands that they are two separate calls that come as one. Christ calls them to be consecrated priests, instead of secular priests (diocesan). Consecrated here means the vows. The are many forms of consecration. But we’re talking about the vowed life.

We are seeing the number of men who say, “I want to be a Franciscan, because I feel the call to live the Gospel as Francis lived it.” Priot to Vatican II we had men coming in saying, “I want to be a Franciscan priest, because I want to go to the missions or because I like the Franciscans.”

We don’t hear much of that among the men. We hear them saying, that they are attracted to the charism and the life of the religious institute that they choose. I imagine it must be the same with those religious communities of women that are gaining in new members.

The John Paul Generation is much more cognizant of what religious life is and how it is very unique and has its own graces, mission, and place in the Church, separate from marriage and priesthood, even though priests are allowed to become religious.

As a Formation Director and the founder of a new community, to me this is more important than the numbers. I want men who want to learn from Francis how to live the Gospel. What they will do, priestly ministry, teaching, street ministry, nursing, etc, is secondary to religious life. The vision and mission is to live the Gospel as the founder dictated it. We have more men who understand this before they join. This is ver new, but it’s great!

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Jane11]

There are several communities of men that devote much of their life to study: Dominicans, Jesuits, Salesians, Christian Brothers, Xaverian Brothers, Benedictines.
Br. JR, OSF

Thank you Br. JR for the information. I’m going to take a look at your website to see what you guys are up to. It is helpful to us to be able to have some contact with you. One thing that I don’t like is where I go to church the “nuns” don’t even look like nuns so you don’t have the option of even going to one to ask for prayer or spiritual advice - I could trip over one and not even know it. I didn’t even know we had nuns around until Father recognized them for something during a Mass…

 

[JReducation]

Thank you Br. JR for the information. I’m going to take a look at your website to see what you guys are up to. It is helpful to us to be able to have some contact with you. One thing that I don’t like is where I go to church the “nuns” don’t even look like nuns so you don’t have the option of even going to one to ask for prayer or spiritual advice - I could trip over one and not even know it. I didn’t even know we had nuns around until Father recognized them for something during a Mass…

Well, though a religious habit or some kind is preferable, there are some communities that never had one. I don’t know what kind of sisters are in your parish. I just wanted to add that, because we Catholics have a mistaken notion that all religious, men and women, had habits and they abandoned them. The truth is that the majority did. But there were religious families that never had a habit. It was forbidden by the founder and the Church for them to have one.

I had a similar situation as you did. I was at a gathering of religious men. There were six men there in white shirts and slacks. I their clothing was clean, but it was pretty obvious that it came from a thrift shop. It didn’t fit right. But we also have many immigrant poor in our part of the world. So I beleived that they must be immigrants who worked for he college where we were meeting.

To my embarrassment, I passed them by, said hello, but did not stop to introduce myself. I proceeded to introduce myself to some other religious just a few feet away. When things go going and the role call was held, the guys in the white shirts and khaki pants were Missionaries of Charity Brothers, founded by Mother Teresa. They never wore a habit because Mother Teresa and Pope Pius XII believed that the habit would be a barrier between the brothes and the poor. Their rule forbids the wearing of any distinctive garb.

The same happened to me with the Marianists brothers. I had never met one. When I did, I kept calling him Sir. When I was told that he was a brother, I was embarrassed for my stupidity. I should have known. I was visiting their shcool. Their founder and the pope at the time felt that the brothers should not wear a habit so that they would be an inspiration to lay teachers. In their 200 year history, they have never had a habit.

The same is true about certain communities of women. One that comes to mind is the Sisters of Charity founded by St. Elizabeth Ann Seton. Mother Seton never gave them a habit. They loved her very much and imitated her widow’s garb. But that was not a rule. Bishop Carrol did not want them to wear habits. They were to be secular sisters who renewed their vows ever year, just like St. Vincent’s Daughters of Charity, who were also told not to wear a habit, by St. Vincent.

While I understand and appreciate the significance of a habit. I also understand that some religious communities never had one and that their founders and the popes who approved their rules did not want them to have one. We have to be flexible and religious have to be faithful to their charism and mission. If the charism includes a habit, then get one. If not, follow the rules and constitutions of your community, as long as they are approved by the Holy See.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[anode]

Hello All,

I read that there was once many religious who were involved with important discoveries in the fields of science and medicine.   It seems to me that they were able to do this because they spent much of their time in study and also because they were devoted to God and had time to devote to listening to and praying to, and worshiping God.

I have two questions… Are there today specific orders devoted to scientific studies of any kind? (Scientific might not be the word I’m looking for here, but rather maybe any study that helps solve a problem that is occurring for that time.) and if so, is it only men’s orders?

and also…

In history would nuns have ever been involved in any sort of scientific study? Are there today contemplative or semi-contemplative orders in which there are nuns devoted to scientific studies? It seems to me that the more traditional role of a nun was to be sort of like the church’s extra hands, home-maker and nurturer, helper- the mothering role. Historically, has it ever been considered erroneous for a woman (religious or not) to get involved with the study of the sciences? If so, what was their reasoning?

Not trying to start any possible feminist-like debate here, but just wanted to know straight facts. Thanks!

-Anne Elizabeth

The Benedictine vow of stability enables Benedictines, both male and female, to establish schools and to focus on learning. The Benedictine orders for women in the US often owned colleges and are still associated with teaching in colleges and universities.The Benedictines in Duluth NM own St. Scholastica College in Duluth, those in St. Joseph, MN built the College of St. Benedict, the sister college to St. John’s University. The Benedictine sisters in Atchinson KS co-sponsor Benedictine College in Kansas. You often read about these (and other Benedictine) sisters’ intellectual attainments and awards in their “What’s New” pages and newsletters. This includes published research in science and the humanities.

The Dominicans sisters also value intellectual attainment, part of the praedicare--“to preach” advocated by St. Dominic. If you search through Dominican orders of women, you’ll find several that teach in Catholic (and secular) colleges and universities, also with their awards and research listed in the news sections of their orders’ websites.

Most of the above orders, both Benedictine and Dominican, don’t wear a habit, although this may change among the newer members.

 

[JReducation]

The Benedictine vow of stability enables Benedictines, both male and female, to establish schools and to focus on learning. The Benedictine orders for women in the US often owned colleges and are still associated with teaching in colleges and universities.The Benedictines in Duluth NM own St. Scholastica College in Duluth, those in St. Joseph, MN built the College of St. Benedict, the sister college to St. John’s University. The Benedictine sisters in Atchinson KS co-sponsor Benedictine College in Kansas. You often read about these (and other Benedictine) sisters’ intellectual attainments and awards in their “What’s New” pages and newsletters. This includes published research in science and the humanities.

The Dominicans sisters also value intellectual attainment, part of the praedicare--“to preach” advocated by St. Dominic. If you search through Dominican orders of women, you’ll find several that teach in Catholic (and secular) colleges and universities, also with their awards and research listed in the news sections of their orders’ websites.

Most of the above orders, both Benedictine and Dominican, don’t wear a habit, although this may change among the newer members.

When you mention Benedictine women, you’re speaking about Benedictine sisters, not Benedictine nuns, right?

I know about the Dominicans, their sisters are very involved in education, but their nuns are not. It’s the same with the Franciscans. Our nuns are not involved with any outside apostolate, but our sisters are.

I’m trying to understand if the Benedictine nuns are different from other nuns or if we’re using the term nun for sister. Thanks.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[anode]

When you mention Benedictine women, you’re speaking about Benedictine sisters, not Benedictine nuns, right?

I know about the Dominicans, their sisters are very involved in education, but their nuns are not. It’s the same with the Franciscans. Our nuns are not involved with any outside apostolate, but our sisters are.

I’m trying to understand if the Benedictine nuns are different from other nuns or if we’re using the term nun for sister. Thanks.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

The orders I’m thinking of, both Benedictine and Dominican, are all sisters, not enclosed. However, the nuns of Regina Laudis, OSB, include very well educated women, one whom–their cheese maker–have received PhD’s while being nuns. They observe constitutional enclosure, like most Benedictine nuns, and can have people within the enclosure and can leave for good reason. The Dominican nuns observe papal enclosure, I think.

 

[JReducation]

The orders I’m thinking of, both Benedictine and Dominican, are all sisters, not enclosed. However, the nuns of Regina Laudis, OSB, include very well educated women, one whom–their cheese maker–have received PhD’s while being nuns. They observe constitutional enclosure, like most Benedictine nuns, and can have people within the enclosure and can leave for good reason. The Dominican nuns observe papal enclosure, I think.

Ok, so you’re talking about sisters. It is true that many nuns have PhDs, MDs, MAs, etc. But generally, nuns do not have external apostolates. Most have papal enclosure and only the local bishop can give them permission to leave the enclosure, except to go to a doctor or shopping for new shoes or something that they have to go themselves.

When Mother Angelica was making her rounds, she had the permission of the local bishop. To go on TV she had to get the permission of the local bishop again.

Nuns and sisters are not the same animal. As I always say. One has stripes and the other has spots.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[anode]

Ok, so you’re talking about sisters. It is true that many nuns have PhDs, MDs, MAs, etc. But generally, nuns do not have external apostolates. Most have papal enclosure and only the local bishop can give them permission to leave the enclosure, except to go to a doctor or shopping for new shoes or something that they have to go themselves.

When Mother Angelica was making her rounds, she had the permission of the local bishop. To go on TV she had to get the permission of the local bishop again.

Nuns and sisters are not the same animal. As I always say. One has stripes and the other has spots.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

So as not to get sidetracked, all of my comments regarding Benedictine and Dominican women religious who teach, do research, publish, get awards, etc. applies to sisters, not nuns–as a rule.

 

[JReducation]

So as not to get sidetracked, all of my comments regarding Benedictine and Dominican women religious who teach, do research, publish, get awards, etc. applies to sisters, not nuns–as a rule.

Now I can follow you better. Thanks for that. We have to be careful, because we tend to use the two words interchangeably and they are not the same.

It’s like friar and monk. People often use them interchangeably. They’re not the same.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[anode]

As an example of a scholarly Benedictine, I happened to read about one in today’s New York Times Sunday Magazine, Sr. Mary Alfreda Elsensohn, OSB, of the Monastery of St. Gertrude in Cottonwood, Idaho. During her long and productive life, she became an expert on the history of Idaho, founded a museum at her monastery and published 4 books, one of them about Polly Bemis, a young Chinese concubine repeatedly bought and sold, who nursed her last owner back to health; he married her and took her to Idaho. The museum link is here:

historicalmuseumatstgertrude.com/muspublications.html

This monastery has had a number of vocations in recent years.

 

[JReducation]

As an example of a scholarly Benedictine, I happened to read about one in today’s New York Times Sunday Magazine, Sr. Mary Alfreda Elsensohn, OSB, of the Monastery of St. Gertrude in Cottonwood, Idaho. During her long and productive life, she became an expert on the history of Idaho, founded a museum at her monastery and published 4 books, one of them about Polly Bemis, a young Chinese concubine repeatedly bought and sold, who nursed her last owner back to health; he married her and took her to Idaho. The museum link is here:

historicalmuseumatstgertrude.com/muspublications.html

This monastery has had a number of vocations in recent years.

That would be something that a Benedictine would find interesting and a Franciscan would go,

That’s why God gives the Church so many different charisms.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF