What happens to sinners is OSAS scenario?

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I don’t know how we got into a conversation about Calvinism exclusively. I’m talking about those who believe what I’m posting. If Calvinists don’t, these questions aren’t about Calvinism.

What is called OSAS, includes what Calvinists are talking about when they refer to the Preservation/Perseverance of the saints; the P of TULIP.​

• 2. There is - so it appears - a non-Calvinist OSAS; if so, the two need to be distinguished, in case either is blamed as having the faults (real or perceived) of the other.
• 3. If people are thought to believe something they don’t, & someone knows they do not, is it wrong to point this out ?
• 4. Sometimes a mistake can be exposed only by an explanation of what is really believed. If people ask questions that are answerable, should they be left unanswered ?

 

[kalt]

I guess that being “at war” doesn’t mean that you will win every battle.

How does somebody who is born again have a desire to do these things when the Bible says that somebody who is born again is now at war with his sin?

Sounds to me like he would be one of the people the Bible describes as a false convert. That is, somebody who says all the right words and participates in all of the rituals, but is not born again.

Being born again doesn’t just mean that the slate is wiped clean and you do your best to stay out of trouble. It means that you die to your sin and no longer serve sin.

That’s why 1 John 3:4-10 describes it this way:

 

[kalt]

So those who believe in OSAS, believe that people will commit only venial sins after being born again.

If a person truly knows when he is born again, how do some people end up being wrong about it? (Those who commit mortal sins after being born again.)

And if that person can be wrong, how sure can others be that they are truly born again?

A person that truly becomes “born again” will know it. There is a change in that person that can not be described to anyone who has not also been spiritually regenerated by God.
I suspect that many of those who are born again lose their sense of being so, because they neglect the things of God (their first-love). They still are members of God’s family in Christ.
Those who do not neglect the things of God will be strengthened by the Holy Spirit. This will make them even more sure of their salvation and they will grow in love, knowing, and service towards God and also towards their fellow man.

A person who is truly “born again” can not commit a “mortal sin” as you propose. I agree with the Baptists that all of a person’s past, present, and future sins are paid for when that person is placed into the Beloved at the moment of true belief and acceptance of what the Lord Jesus Christ did for us by His death, burial, and resurrection. That is why Jesus said that we have “eternal life” at the same time we believe. See (John 3:16).
Having eternal life could not be so called “eternal”, if it could be lost.

 

[Pastor_Jim]

I guess that being “at war” doesn’t mean that you will win every battle.

No, we don’t always win the battle but we do fight against sin.

If a person truly knows when he is born again, how do some people end up being wrong about it? (Those who commit mortal sins after being born again.)

And if that person can be wrong, how sure can others be that they are truly born again?

Believing something and knowing something are two different things.

No doubt, many who are not saved believe they are saved because mere belief doesn’t require anything but the willingness to believe.

However, to know something or to have assurance of something, one must have evidence. In Christianity, we call this evidence “fruit”, as Jesus once compared people to trees and their actions to fruit that shows what kind of tree they are.

Believing you’re saved is meaningless unless you have the evidence, or fruit, to show that you’re saved.

 

[Pastor_Jim]

If a person truly knows when he is born again, how do some people end up being wrong about it? (Those who commit mortal sins after being born again.)

And if that person can be wrong, how sure can others be that they are truly born again?

Believing something and knowing something are two different things.

No doubt, many who are not saved believe they are saved because mere belief doesn’t require anything but the willingness to believe.

However, to know something or to have assurance of something, one must have evidence. In Christianity, we call this evidence “fruit”, as Jesus once compared people to trees and their actions to fruit that shows what kind of tree they are.

Believing you’re saved is meaningless unless you have the evidence, or fruit, to show that you’re saved.

 

[brkn1]

So those who believe in OSAS, believe that people will commit only venial sins after being born again.

If a person truly knows when he is born again, how do some people end up being wrong about it? (Those who commit mortal sins after being born again.)

And if that person can be wrong, how sure can others be that they are truly born again?

The distinction between “venial” and “mortal” sin is an invention of man. Any and all sin will condemn a person that dies without having the righteousness of Christ imputed to that person. That makes all of the born again person’s sin (past, present, & future) paid for by Christ’s one redemptive sacrifice.

A born again person might commit serious sin, but he will find that God the Father severely punishes such behavior. A look at David’s life would be an example of how God treats His servants when they disobey. There is also no longer any real satisfaction in sin for a child of God. Sin seriously bothers his conscience and makes him want to get back to the peace and joy of being right with God. The same thing happens to us with our earthly families.