What happens when a nun/sister/novice/postulant leaves?

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This was a question on a another board and I am just interested to hear from otheres here.

What happened when you left, where you given help etc?
Was it very hard for you?
Perhaps you are not ready to say it, but it will sure help others and their pain for your sharing. Thank You:thumbsup:
 
I would suggest you read Karen Armstrong’s ’ Through the Narrow Gate’ which should answer your questions.
Karen can be listened to on You Tube and is a prolific writer on inter faith matters. She is also a very nice person.
 
It was difficult, very difficult. Although my time in was not long by a long shot, the reason behind all that happened was heartbreaking. I wish I was a touch more mature and I would have handled it different.

To this day I still think of my being there (really to give myself to Jesus as a nun) although I have been married happily for 36 years.

You just never forget the joy, the deep joy, of giving your life to Jesus. I repent and mourn sometimes over it. My director said I could not have done what I have done up to now as a lay person if I was in the convent. Exorcisms, giving a conference on New Age, etc…and the list goes on…he is right, but I would have given that up in a nanosecond…to be what I believe Jesus was calling me to…🤷
 
It was difficult, very difficult. Although my time in was not long by a long shot, the reason behind all that happened was heartbreaking. I wish I was a touch more mature and I would have handled it different.

To this day I still think of my being there (really to give myself to Jesus as a nun) although I have been married happily for 36 years.

You just never forget the joy, the deep joy, of giving your life to Jesus. I repent and mourn sometimes over it. My director said I could not have done what I have done up to now as a lay person if I was in the convent. Exorcisms, giving a conference on New Age, etc…and the list goes on…he is right, but I would have given that up in a nanosecond…to be what I believe Jesus was calling me to…🤷
I thought only priests gave exorcisms?
 
I thought only priests gave exorcisms?
Code:
You are right Jen…priests are the only ones who can perofrm exorcisms.

I should have made myself clear…I was part of a team that helped two priests under the blessing of two bishops…

Thank you for pointing this out as it could cause great confusion.
 
I have read the other posts on the other forum, and although this may be a healing process for those involved, I have to say I do not agree that a public forum is the proper place for this. First of all, many people read these posts. Some may be considering a religious vocation. I don’t think it is healthy or wise to read the one-sided account of someone’s departure from an order.

That being said, I think it would be healthy for religious communities to discuss departure with their postulants/candidates as a part of their formation. Ours does, and it eliminates a lot of heartache and misunderstanding if and when the time comes for a departure.

Most communities do not discuss departure outside of the council members and the sister who is leaving. In otherwords, no general announcement is made that Sister Mary X is leaving next Tuesday, so let’s all say our good-byes. When you really think about it and pray it through, you’ll see that it makes sense. First of all, it is no one else’s business. A vocation is between a soul and God, who is guided through formation by those who have the authority to lead them. Sisters leave for different reasons, but we can divide them into two basic groups: those who choose to leave, and those who are being asked to leave. For privacy reasons and in charity, you need to treat both groups the same way. If Sister X is being asked to leave the community, the reason she is being asked to leave is no one else’s business, not even that of her classmates in the novitiate.

Regarding the rule asking that the person is never discussed in community again:
The way some of the posters responded to this made it sound like a “cruel rule.” In our community, when a sister leaves, she is free to keep in contact with the superiors for as long as she wishes, but the rest of the community does not continue to talk about her once she is gone. That would be gossip. They may, of course, continue to pray for her. But to constantly rehash what happened, why it happened, what was she thinking, why didn’t she do this or that? How is that charitable? You can’t do any good for a person by talking about them once they are no longer with you. I know of several communities with the “no further mention” rule, but again, this applies only to the sisters and not to the superiors.

Once again, discussing this all beforehand helps a person make sense of it all, and they can understand the charity, wisdom, and justice behind the rules. If I had been asked to leave a community, I don’t think I’d want the reason(s) to be general knowledge, nor would I want my sisters talking about it after I was gone. Compared to the way things work in the professional world, this may seem harsh, but we need to keep in mind that even in vibrant, healthy communities, about 1/3 of the women who enter will leave. In the professional world, that would be considered very high turnover! When we let an employee go, we do not disclose the reasons to their co-workers. When an employee asks to be released from their work agreement, we sit down with them and discuss an exit date, and we set the parameters. Generally, we make a blast announcement to parents and students together, immediately after the departure, and that’s the end of it. If the employee has been let go, we do not try to hinder their chances of future employment by making that fact common knowledge. If the future employer wants to discuss it with us privately, then we are happy to do so. Likewise, if a sister is asked to leave, it may be that she just needs to mature and then try her vocation again.
 
I would suggest you read Karen Armstrong’s ’ Through the Narrow Gate’ which should answer your questions.
Karen can be listened to on You Tube and is a prolific writer on inter faith matters. She is also a very nice person.
Have you met her in person?

I’ve read her *History of God. *
 
I have read the other posts on the other forum, and although this may be a healing process for those involved, I have to say I do not agree that a public forum is the proper place for this. First of all, many people read these posts. Some may be considering a religious vocation. I don’t think it is healthy or wise to read the one-sided account of someone’s departure from an order.

That being said, I think it would be healthy for religious communities to discuss departure with their postulants/candidates as a part of their formation. Ours does, and it eliminates a lot of heartache and misunderstanding if and when the time comes for a departure.

Most communities do not discuss departure outside of the council members and the sister who is leaving. In otherwords, no general announcement is made that Sister Mary X is leaving next Tuesday, so let’s all say our good-byes. When you really think about it and pray it through, you’ll see that it makes sense. First of all, it is no one else’s business. A vocation is between a soul and God, who is guided through formation by those who have the authority to lead them. Sisters leave for different reasons, but we can divide them into two basic groups: those who choose to leave, and those who are being asked to leave. For privacy reasons and in charity, you need to treat both groups the same way. If Sister X is being asked to leave the community, the reason she is being asked to leave is no one else’s business, not even that of her classmates in the novitiate.

Regarding the rule asking that the person is never discussed in community again:
The way some of the posters responded to this made it sound like a “cruel rule.” In our community, when a sister leaves, she is free to keep in contact with the superiors for as long as she wishes, but the rest of the community does not continue to talk about her once she is gone. That would be gossip. They may, of course, continue to pray for her. But to constantly rehash what happened, why it happened, what was she thinking, why didn’t she do this or that? How is that charitable? You can’t do any good for a person by talking about them once they are no longer with you. I know of several communities with the “no further mention” rule, but again, this applies only to the sisters and not to the superiors.

Once again, discussing this all beforehand helps a person make sense of it all, and they can understand the charity, wisdom, and justice behind the rules. If I had been asked to leave a community, I don’t think I’d want the reason(s) to be general knowledge, nor would I want my sisters talking about it after I was gone. Compared to the way things work in the professional world, this may seem harsh, but we need to keep in mind that even in vibrant, healthy communities, about 1/3 of the women who enter will leave. In the professional world, that would be considered very high turnover! When we let an employee go, we do not disclose the reasons to their co-workers. When an employee asks to be released from their work agreement, we sit down with them and discuss an exit date, and we set the parameters. Generally, we make a blast announcement to parents and students together, immediately after the departure, and that’s the end of it. If the employee has been let go, we do not try to hinder their chances of future employment by making that fact common knowledge. If the future employer wants to discuss it with us privately, then we are happy to do so. Likewise, if a sister is asked to leave, it may be that she just needs to mature and then try her vocation again.
I fully agree with you, Sister.
 
I believe that the thread in that other forum is perfectly acceptable as it helps shed light on how some religious institutes have handled dismissal or even simple departures from their institute.

I do not believe the rule for not speaking about former members is necessarily wise. A person who has left, particularly one who has been in the community for a while, may leave the others with genuine grief and lack of closure. Speaking of the departed member should be in accordance with the dictates of prudence and charity. To honestly face some of the publicly known issues can be healing for the remaining members. I believe that a person either is formed sufficiently to be able to distinguish gossip from other communications, or has not reached the adult Christian maturity envisioned for vowed members of religious institutes.

From the standpoint of both the departing member and the remaining members, a sudden and secret departure is not necessarily healthy. After all, there are a lot of reasons why someone may leave. If concern for an elderly parent prompts a novice to depart, why shouldn’t she be able to say goodbye to the community and the community remember her contributions to the community and the stories which arose from time to time? Why shouldn’t a sister be able to say goodbye to one who has been part of the “family” for a few years? If that is harmful to her vocation, maybe she doesn’t have a vocation in the first place. Fear can be destructive, and the virtue of prudence ought to be cultivated.
 
I don’t know if women’s communities handle this differently. But in our community the policy is pretty simple. The brother may discuss his departure with whomever he wants. The Guardian and the Minister may never discuss it, except with the brother and with the council. The Guardian and the Minister are not allowed to ask why the brother is leaving. It is up to him to tell them. The brother must approach the Guardian and ask for permission to request for a dispensation. If the Guardian grants the permission, then he approaches the Minister with the same request. If the Minister grants the permission, then the brother writes a letter in his own handwriting, it cannot be typed, he signs it with his baptismal name and his religious name. It must be sealed. The letter is sent to the General in Rome. If the General approves of the reasons for the request, he forwards the letter with his recommendation to the Holy See. If he disagrees with the request, he has to ask the brother to reconsider. This is done in writing and the brother has 15 days to respond. If he does not respond, it is assumed that he has changed his mind and the process comes to an end.

If the brother responds that he wants to proceed with the request, the General will write a letter to the Holy See stating his disagreement. Both letters are sent, the request of the Brother and the statement by the General. Then you wait. In the meantime, the Provincial Minister may grant you a leave of absence. You are living outside of the community, but you are bound by the vows, rule and constitution. In our case, since we’re an order in solemn vows, you’re also bound under pain of sin to recite the Divine Office.

If the answer comes back affirmative from the Holy See, you have 15 days to sign the papers. If you do not sign, the process comes to an end and you must return to your religious house. For men in solemn vows they have two different criteria. You can be dispensed from the vows. In which case, you may marry and participate in the sacraments like anyone else.

We do stay in toiuch with a ex-friars. They visit and we visit them. Sometimes we even work together in the same ministry.

What happens afterward, is really up to you. You owe the order nothing and it owes you nothing. You leave with nothing, not even clothing, books or anything except a breviary, bible and the clothes that you’re wearing. The community usually gives you a little money to tie you over about a month.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I don’t know if women’s communities handle this differently. But in our community the policy is pretty simple. The brother may discuss his departure with whomever he wants. The Guardian and the Minister may never discuss it, except with the brother and with the council. The Guardian and the Minister are not allowed to ask why the brother is leaving. It is up to him to tell them. The brother must approach the Guardian and ask for permission to request for a dispensation. If the Guardian grants the permission, then he approaches the Minister with the same request. If the Minister grants the permission, then the brother writes a letter in his own handwriting, it cannot be typed, he signs it with his baptismal name and his religious name. It must be sealed. The letter is sent to the General in Rome. If the General approves of the reasons for the request, he forwards the letter with his recommendation to the Holy See. If he disagrees with the request, he has to ask the brother to reconsider. This is done in writing and the brother has 15 days to respond. If he does not respond, it is assumed that he has changed his mind and the process comes to an end.

If the brother responds that he wants to proceed with the request, the General will write a letter to the Holy See stating his disagreement. Both letters are sent, the request of the Brother and the statement by the General. Then you wait. In the meantime, the Provincial Minister may grant you a leave of absence. You are living outside of the community, but you are bound by the vows, rule and constitution. In our case, since we’re an order in solemn vows, you’re also bound under pain of sin to recite the Divine Office.

If the answer comes back affirmative from the Holy See, you have 15 days to sign the papers. If you do not sign, the process comes to an end and you must return to your religious house. For men in solemn vows they have two different criteria. You can be dispensed from the vows. In which case, you may marry and participate in the sacraments like anyone else.

We do stay in toiuch with a ex-friars. They visit and we visit them. Sometimes we even work together in the same ministry.

What happens afterward, is really up to you. You owe the order nothing and it owes you nothing. You leave with nothing, not even clothing, books or anything except a breviary, bible and the clothes that you’re wearing. The community usually gives you a little money to tie you over about a month.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
What you state is for those in solemn (or final) vows.

Those in simple (or temporary) vows are release by the superior of the Order.

Its a bit easier and shorter as the Vatican is not involved.
 
What you state is for those in solemn (or final) vows.

Those in simple (or temporary) vows are release by the superior of the Order.

Its a bit easier and shorter as the Vatican is not involved.
It’s only for those in solemn vows or for those in simple perpetual vows who belong to institutes of Pontifical Right. Because if you belong to an Institute of Diocesan Right, the bishop can dispense.

Those friars in simple vows can be dispensed by the General Minister. It has to be someone who is an Ordinary.

The steps are different from one order to another. I have a good friend who is a Dominican and they don’t have to ask the Prior for permission to begin the process. They simply write their letter and turn it in to the Prior Provincial who forwards it to the Prior General. I don’t know if the Prior Provincial has to support the letter or not.

But in all my years, my experience has always been that the superiors usually ask you to wait before you begin the process. I have never seen a superior who jumps up and down and agrees to the process on the first request. They always suggest a waiting period, a leave of absence or retreat, etc before they proceed to Rome with the request.

For people in temporary vows it’s different, because you don’t have much time. The vows would have expired by the time you go through all that. We have given men a leave that runs out when the vows expire. That’s usually done if there is less than a year left to the vows.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Another interesting thing, I do not know if it is only us Carmelites who do this, is that a man who leaves in temporary vows may return to the Order at a later date.

They write a letter to the Prior Provincial asking to return, they are interviewed and all the formators who worked with them are asked their opinion and the the Prior Provincial decides.

If they return then they live within a community (usually the student house) for a probationary year and then make their first vows for the second time.

I only know this because we had two return a couple of years ago.
 
Another interesting thing, I do not know if it is only us Carmelites who do this, is that a man who leaves in temporary vows may return to the Order at a later date.

They write a letter to the Prior Provincial asking to return, they are interviewed and all the formators who worked with them are asked their opinion and the the Prior Provincial decides.

If they return then they live within a community (usually the student house) for a probationary year and then make their first vows for the second time.

I only know this because we had two return a couple of years ago.
Code:
I find this wonderful! 🙂
 
I think this may be more common than we think. We have reverts too. Even men who leave after solemn vows may return, but they have to go through the novitiate again. They don’t have to go through the entire formation process. I knew a Capuchin who left, with permission. Got married and had a son. His son joined the Capuchins. Later, the man’s wife died and he rejoined the Capuchins. Today, father and son are both Capuchin Franciscans. There is a canonical technicality if the man was ordained. I’m not sure how that works. I think that he can be a religious, but he remains laicized. Don’t take that to the bank. I believe there is no provision in canon law for a priest who has been laicized to be reinstated into the clerical state. Maybe someone else knows more about this than I do. This is one of those areas where the Church distinguishes between priesthood and religious life.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Another interesting thing, I do not know if it is only us Carmelites who do this, is that a man who leaves in temporary vows may return to the Order at a later date.

They write a letter to the Prior Provincial asking to return, they are interviewed and all the formators who worked with them are asked their opinion and the the Prior Provincial decides.

If they return then they live within a community (usually the student house) for a probationary year and then make their first vows for the second time.

I only know this because we had two return a couple of years ago.
 
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