What hath 'the spirit of Vatican II' wrought?

[MIKE46]

Millions now recognise the universal call to holiness, and try to live it.

So what you are saying is that before Vatican II millions no make that hundreds of millions, maybe billions of people did not strive to live as holy a life as possible, is that about right? That it was only after the great awakening we suddenly had the realization, WOW :newidea:,** I can now live a holy life too!!!**

I have an answer to that one…

:

I think that maybe just maybe you need to actually realize that the Church neither began nor ended with Vatican II and that in all liklihood, the same people who are striving towards holiness in their day to day life now would more than likely have done it prior to Vatican II as well.

 

[Lormar]

What hath the spirit of Vatican II wrought?

Plenty. But I’ll confine it to this. Catholic Answers wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for that spirit. We have a Church filled with Catholics totally ignorant of their Faith. I’m the last generation that was taught with the Baltimore Catechism before they decided that what you feel is more important than what is true.

 

[damooster]

I usually disregard quotes like the ones listed in the OP’s first post, but the one from Cardinal Mahoney is actually posted on the Archdiocese of LA’s website:

vocations.la-archdiocese.org/archbishop/letters/ministry/3.html

If you want to see “what the spirit of Vatican II wrought,” take a look around the website. Some of the pictures and videos people have used to knock down V2 (and I thought were other denominations) are actually posted proudly on the diocesan website, like this one:

archdiocese.la/calendar/index.php

 

[edwest2]

I still see attempts to look at Vatican II negatively. As we were told at the time, the Mass will be in English to encourage fuller participation by the people. The priest would face the people. That’s IT.

After Vatican II, the radicals inside and outside of the Church made their attack. When Humanae Vitae was published in 1968, telling Catholics to not use artificial birth control, they freaked out.

Look at the threads here: Why do priests have to be celibate, why is masturbation a sin, can I perform this or that act related to sex, abortion, women priests and same sex marriage. This was not caused by Vatican II. The goal was to confuse and poison the interior of the Church and to poison lay Catholics. And it was helped along by high priced lawyers going to courts and legalizing sin. It’s OK. It’s legal!

And what are they doing today? More lawyers and more attempts to legalize sin.

The late 1960s gave us more drug addicts. The 1970s gave us more porn addicts. The 1980s made sure we could get porn on cable. And Vatican II is to blame for what?

Peace,
Ed

 

[Michael1985]

So what you are saying is that before Vatican II millions no make that hundreds of millions, maybe billions of people did not strive to live as holy a life as possible, is that about right? That it was only after the great awakening we suddenly had the realization, WOW :newidea:,** I can now live a holy life too!!!**

I have an answer to that one…

:

I think that maybe just maybe you need to actually realize that the Church neither began nor ended with Vatican II and that in all liklihood, the same people who are striving towards holiness in their day to day life now would more than likely have done it prior to Vatican II as well.

Dear Mike46
Your post was very rude, it was nothing short of mockery, which Brother Rodger called the poison of community life.

I’m 24 so I didn’t live though Vatican II, however I was only repeating what a large number of people have told me. They said they thought priests and religious were called to be holy but not ordinary Catholics. I certainly didn’t realise the full implications of the call to holiness until it was explained to me.

 

[rep140]

The current edition of First Things has an article about the demise of Christianity Lite. If Catholics look at their Church with dismay today, what about mainline Protestants? They are in a complete downward spiral and they didn’t have Vatican II.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Dear Mike46
Your post was very rude, it was nothing short of mockery, which Brother Rodger called the poison of community life.

I’m 24 so I didn’t live though Vatican II, however I was only repeating what a large number of people have told me. They said they thought priests and religious were called to be holy but not ordinary Catholics. I certainly didn’t realise the full implications of the call to holiness until it was explained to me.

Dear Michael:

Brother Rodger? As in Brother Rodger of Taize? I admire what Taize has done and I particularly like their chants/motets which most modern OF parishes can certainly sing.
Brother Rodger is protestant.

I grew up before, during, and just after Vartican II. The call to holiness permeated the lives of individual Catholics back then. This is nothing more than the same myth that we did not understand what was going on in the Mass. I was invested into the Confraternity of the Sacred Heart in 1965 and have followed the prayer intentions of the Confraternity in all the years since. I am not alone in this.

 

[michaeldaniels]

And prior to the Council, all Catholics didn’t realize that we are all called to be saints and to be holy…and that it was important to live that daily in our lives???

Millions now recognise the universal call to holiness, and try to live it.

 

[palmas85]

Dear Mike46
Your post was very rude, it was nothing short of mockery, which Brother Rodger called the poison of community life.

I’m 24 so I didn’t live though Vatican II, however I was only repeating what a large number of people have told me. They said they thought priests and religious were called to be holy but not ordinary Catholics. I certainly didn’t realise the full implications of the call to holiness until it was explained to me.

Maybe I missed something here, but what exactly was rude about it?

I looked at the post in question and while true it was a bit heavy handed, the response to your truly amazing post was I feel, somewhat mild. In one fell swoop you basically cast adrift entire generations that lived or were living prior to Vatican II. Hardly a good or dare I say it a charitable thing to do:tsktsk:

And in your defense you say that you were merely repeating what others told you.

Repeating what others told you but that you yourself have no personal knowledge of:ehh:

Would that not fall under the general heading of gossip and by extension causing or giving rise to scandal?

And pray tell, why bring old Brother Roger into it? Is he some kind of authority within the Church? Or perhaps I missed something there as well

 

[DorianGregorian]

What has it wrought?

The destruction of Altars only to be replaced by a table.

The loss of the Sacrifice [in its idea] only to be replaced by [the idea of] a meal.

The abolition of Gregorian Chant, the music of angels, to be replaced by pop music.

Religious Orders which have totally abandoned the Rules of their followers they are bound to keep.

Nuns who throw away the habit and live in an apartment, making sure to go to the beauty salon before their next protest.

Apostate Priests who preach from the Pulpit that Muslims and Jews can have the same relationship with God that Catholics do.

Utter confusion in doctrine, where a friend of mine once said (in all-seriousness and innocence) “no one knows what it means to be a good Catholic today.”

Communion in the Hand which destroys the idea of the Real Presence and makes Theologians openly defy Transubstantiation, we should call it ‘transfinalization’ or ‘transsignification’ who cares what Trent defined?

The Catholic Church helping its own destruction in Spain by sanctioning its disestablishment as State Church.

A new Requiem Mass which is so radically different, I wonder if it even assists the departed, and indeed if it is Catholic.

New translations of Scriptures, a new Vulgate, and so called Study Bibles with notes that would of made even archheretic Thomas Cranmer sick to his stomach.

A new Catechism which has been used to further a new doctrine, notice how many times documents from Vatican II are quoted, nearly every other page.

A new Divine Office where ancient hours are suppressed, the Latin language destroyed, and prayers to allow so called “Ecumenical vespers.”

Popes, Successors of Peter, openly praying with heretics and schismatics.

The modification of the Rosary given to us by St. Dominic and the Blessed Mother.

A new idea of the Church as a “democracy” much like a Presbyterian polity, along with impeding the authority of the Pope with so called Bishops Conferences.

Empty seminaries, empty Churches, empty Confessionals, an empty faith.

Those are its fruits, and frankly I was upset that such a rich Faith was denied me for the first 17 years of my life, thank God that the Faith has been preserved by some.