What if Cardinal Pole had become Pope in 1550?

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Cardinal Reginald Pole was a cousin to Henry VIII and Mary I of England and was made papal legate and Archbishop of Canterbury when Mary briefly restored England to the Catholic Church. Before this happened, however, he was living in exile in Italy and was a favorite to succeed Pope Paul III (he fell short by one vote in the conclave).

While Pole was in England trying to restore Catholicism, Pope Paul IV actually labeled him a heretic but he was protected by Queen Mary. Apparently, Pole was part of the Spirtituali, a circle of Italian Catholic reformers who shared many of the same emphases as Protestants–radical Augustinian theology, a stress on man’s total dependence on God’s grace by faith, etc.

For those more knowledgeable about all of this than I, do you think a Pope like Reginald Pole might have been able to heal the breach between Protestants and Catholics?
 
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ltwin said:
Cardinal Reginald Pole was a cousin to Henry VIII and Mary I of England and was made papal legate and Archbishop of Canterbury when Mary briefly restored England to the Catholic Church. Before this happened, however, he was living in exile in Italy and was a favorite to succeed Pope Paul III (he fell short by one vote in the conclave).

While Pole was in England trying to restore Catholicism, Pope Paul IV actually labeled him a heretic but he was protected by Queen Mary. Apparently, Pole was part of the Spirtituali , a circle of Italian Catholic reformers who shared many of the same emphases as Protestants–radical Augustinian theology, a stress on man’s total dependence on God’s grace by faith, etc.

For those more knowledgeable about all of this than I, do you think a Pope like Reginald Pole might have been able to heal the breach between Protestants and Catholics?
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Why speculate on something that did not happen? Personally I find “what if’s” a waste of time.
 
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Counter-factual history being (mainly in my main areas) a small niche interest, I’d wonder too. But since I have no in-depth data (i.e., books) on the Cardinal, and not much interest in the Continent, I think I will likely continue to wonder.

The same sort of thought might pop up throughout the Henrician period. What if Fitzroy had not followed the weak Tudor genes into an early grave. What might Henry have done with him. What if the Duke of Burgundy (and, later himself, under an even more august title) had landed on either of the two possible branches of the Tudor tree, as might have happened.

I dunno. Fun to think about it, for inquiring minds. About to order a book on Fitzroy.
 
What if Nero had become Pope? Or what if Judas repented and became Pope, what if Obama fell off his bike, converted, was ordained and became Pope?

What ifs are worthless.
 
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Guys, if you don’t like counterfactual thought experiments, just hit that handy “back” button. No need to trash the OP; I don’t think he’s claiming that it’s anything other than a potentially interesting idea to bat around.
 
What if caesar was aware on the ides, what if Washington overslept one day, what if Hitler focused on Europe longer and left the other theatres out of it for a while, what if I woke up ten minutes earlier today, what if Lincoln or JFK changed schedule by an hour. What if pilate recognized jesus as the messiah… what if my mom went out with a different guy than my dad?

I mean it really is just questioning reality. I suppose it is the stuff time travel advocates dream of…
 
Hoosier-Daddy said:
I mean it really is just questioning reality.
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I mean, no different than an author making up a story for a novel. It’s just a potentially interesting hypothetical, doesn’t have to have some great meaning.
 
What if, another counterfactual. Posit a universe in which messages boards exist, but threads are not posted in by folks who don’t have an interest in the subject.

Magic world, indeed. What if…

Which is the title of a classic anthology of counterfactual suggestions, including one each by Chesterton and Belloc.
 
What if I were completely convinced this was a worthwhile posit?
 
One must know what one is doing, of course. You will recall Sturgeon’s Law.
 
You could write a counterfactual story in which it was a routine occurrence, extrapolate from that what might be societal impact and write another story on what if Lee’s orders had not been lost and found.

The success of all that, within the sub-genre, would depend a lot on your grasp of the history as it occurred, and what might, theoretically, have been critical points causing it flow as it did.
 
Heavens. It almost sounds as if tastes can differ.

Not that I’m surprised. I find some good, some less so. But I read the good, as I find it. Who does it well, in your opinion?
 
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You should never forget PAVANE. Which sits in the 2nd stack in the 2nd room from here, 12 books down. Two above it are also counterfactual.
 
Beat me to it. Commenting to say you don’t like the topic is quite pointless, more so than engaging in “what if’s”… 😉
 
If Turtledove has a failing it’s that he goes for quantity over quality. When he stops and focuses on an alternate history, such as Guns of the South or How Few Remain, it can be quite good. But when he takes an idea, like How Few Remain and writes ten follow up novels, they tend to drag.
 
To the OPs point, had Pole become Pope it seems possible that we could be living in a world sans Anglicanism, Methodism, their descendent faiths, and the King James Bible (and all the KJV only groups as well).
 
Mr. T. did his best, And was always happiest doing that.

PDK is not something that has a place in my collection. It’s that varying taste thing. Yes, there is MAN IN THE HIGH CASTLE, but PDK almost caused me to abandon SF, back around 50+ years ago. Robert Harris, ok.

But I was expecting you to go more for Turtledove, or, to cite someone really over the top, Eric Flint.

Or you can go the really strictly scholarly route, as in the collection edited by Niall Ferguson, VIRTUAL HISTORY/WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN> Written at at least the upper level college history course. It is a great example of how knowing history is essential to molding it, a little.

Or you can mold it too much, as in Gavriel Rosenfield’s academic study of counterfactual stories about Hitler/Nazi-dom, THE WORLD HITLER NEVER MADE, a history of alternative histories. They worry him.

And there is more. But,as I said, in the context of my SF/fantasy collecting, let alone my total book obsession, counterfactuals are a small niche.

Fun one, though.
 
And RULED BRITANNIA.

Also tend to agree. Read them anyway. Mostly.
 
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