P
PMV
Guest
If someone has short-lasting impure, sinful or sick thoughts (while NOT actually feeling lust, anger, ect.) and it is slightly deliberate, have they committed (mortal or venial) sin?
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D
dulcissima
Guest
If you are not feeling lust, etc., what makes these thoughts impure? I don’t think sensuality in and of itself is impure.
D
Dr.Colossus
Guest
Rule of thumb: If you’re not sure if it’s mortal, it’s not mortal. Mortal sin requires complete knowledge and consent. That said, purposely placing yourself in the near occasion of mortal sin is in itself mortal.
M
MariaGorettiGrl
Guest
Slightly deliberate? 
Best if it’s not deliberate at all. Spoken as someone who’s been there!
Best if it’s not deliberate at all. Spoken as someone who’s been there!
A
Al_Masetti
Guest
Scrupulous Anonymous is a “group” and a newsletter published in Liguori, MO by the Redemptorists. The newsletter is free: Scrupulous Anonymous, Liguori, MO 63057-9999
I have experience in this area, as I have been torturing priests in confession for half a century. Basically, unless you are deliberately sticking your fingers up God’s nose, it’s not a mortal sin. There are extenuating circumstances. Of course, don’t push it… God has Infinite Patience, but sometimes He does get ticked off… Even Infinity has its limits !! [little joke there]
Priests rapidly learn to read the people who go to confession. They know or can tell when someone is deceiving themself.
If a priest says “I absolve you of all your sins”, BELIEVE HIM.
I believe that most of the time, our thoughts are pleasurable… only rarely do I have unpleasant thoughts… when I do it’s called obsessive. Not to make light of it, even I get these anxiety attacks from time to time… Sometimes I worry about all sorts of things… alright, I do it a lot… Or, I just had a late night snack while watching shark attacks on the Animal Planet… brrrr.
I think maybe the final determinant is … what do you do after having the thoughts? What acts do you act out??? If the ACT is sinful, then the “slightly impure” thought may be “an occasion of sin” for you. If instead of commiting a sinful act, you just go about your business, then the thoughts aren’t sinful. And the less anxious you are about it, the fewer and less intense the thoughts will be.
When they do come, just say a Hail Mary… And maybe engage in some light conversation with the Holy Spirit and with your Guardian Angel : "Do you mind?.. Would you please rid me of these thoughts… AND NO FUNNY STUFF…[God has a really weird sense of humor and the request might be answered in some bizarre sort of way.]
One day, decades ago, I was down in the dumps, and I was “moved” to go into a store that sold greeting cards. I started reading the cards… and after a few minutes, I was laughing and left and went home with a smile.
I’ve been there!!!
Hope this helps.
I have experience in this area, as I have been torturing priests in confession for half a century. Basically, unless you are deliberately sticking your fingers up God’s nose, it’s not a mortal sin. There are extenuating circumstances. Of course, don’t push it… God has Infinite Patience, but sometimes He does get ticked off… Even Infinity has its limits !! [little joke there]
Priests rapidly learn to read the people who go to confession. They know or can tell when someone is deceiving themself.
If a priest says “I absolve you of all your sins”, BELIEVE HIM.
I believe that most of the time, our thoughts are pleasurable… only rarely do I have unpleasant thoughts… when I do it’s called obsessive. Not to make light of it, even I get these anxiety attacks from time to time… Sometimes I worry about all sorts of things… alright, I do it a lot… Or, I just had a late night snack while watching shark attacks on the Animal Planet… brrrr.
I think maybe the final determinant is … what do you do after having the thoughts? What acts do you act out??? If the ACT is sinful, then the “slightly impure” thought may be “an occasion of sin” for you. If instead of commiting a sinful act, you just go about your business, then the thoughts aren’t sinful. And the less anxious you are about it, the fewer and less intense the thoughts will be.
When they do come, just say a Hail Mary… And maybe engage in some light conversation with the Holy Spirit and with your Guardian Angel : "Do you mind?.. Would you please rid me of these thoughts… AND NO FUNNY STUFF…[God has a really weird sense of humor and the request might be answered in some bizarre sort of way.]
One day, decades ago, I was down in the dumps, and I was “moved” to go into a store that sold greeting cards. I started reading the cards… and after a few minutes, I was laughing and left and went home with a smile.
I’ve been there!!!
Hope this helps.
R
Robin_L.in_TX
Guest
The problem with slightly deliberate thoughts is that the more we accept them, the more they become habitual, eventually leading to sin of some kind. I don’t know if scrupulosity is your problem or if you are just wondering about the partially deliberate part. Vice and virtue are both habits. It is easiest to fight a bad habit, a vice, by replacing it with a good habit, a virtue. That’s how some smokers end up addicted to gum. So make sure it’s a habit you can live with.
All those funny sayings all Catholics used to know, like “protecting your eyes, and ears…” If we don’t look at pornography or materials that stimulate us sexually, whether we feel stimulated or not, they can’t creep up on us in memory when we are vulnerable. Same goes for inappropriate talk, or even bad language. If you’re not surrounded by people, tv, or movies that use bad language, you won’t have it popping out at inopportune times.
So, protect your eyes and ears. If it’s too late, and inappropriate images or words, or conversations pop in to tempt you, CHANGE YOUR THOUGHTS. As Al suggested, prayer often helps. It varies from individual to individual. For some short prayers like, "Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner,’ works well. For others longer prayers like the prayer to St. Michael work. For others, long prayer combined with finding something to do works best. “Idleness is the devil’s playground,” remember?
The sinful part, after we’ve been exposed to these pesky images, thoughts, etc. is in whether or not we entertained the thought. This is the semi-deliberate part you were mentioning.
Being on the high side of 40, I have a lifetime of words, images, and thoughts I wish I had protected myself from. By the grace of God, I am not usually bothered by them anymore, as long as I remain in a state of grace. Once in a while, though, they come popping out when I least expect them. As long as I change my thoughts, pray, and busy myself all is fine.
I still mention them in confession, not as to their sinfulness, but as a way of thanking God for the help He has given me in overcoming them, and asking for His continued graces through the sacrament to help me continue the fight.
Never doubt God’s ability to be merciful and forgive. No matter how many times we fall, get up, look toward your Saviour , and keep going. In the midst of my struggles with this problem, I found the book of Philippians to be very comforting.
May God continue to bless you in your struggles, and may you be abundantly surrounded by our Lord’s peace and love,
Robin L. in TX
All those funny sayings all Catholics used to know, like “protecting your eyes, and ears…” If we don’t look at pornography or materials that stimulate us sexually, whether we feel stimulated or not, they can’t creep up on us in memory when we are vulnerable. Same goes for inappropriate talk, or even bad language. If you’re not surrounded by people, tv, or movies that use bad language, you won’t have it popping out at inopportune times.
So, protect your eyes and ears. If it’s too late, and inappropriate images or words, or conversations pop in to tempt you, CHANGE YOUR THOUGHTS. As Al suggested, prayer often helps. It varies from individual to individual. For some short prayers like, "Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner,’ works well. For others longer prayers like the prayer to St. Michael work. For others, long prayer combined with finding something to do works best. “Idleness is the devil’s playground,” remember?
The sinful part, after we’ve been exposed to these pesky images, thoughts, etc. is in whether or not we entertained the thought. This is the semi-deliberate part you were mentioning.
Being on the high side of 40, I have a lifetime of words, images, and thoughts I wish I had protected myself from. By the grace of God, I am not usually bothered by them anymore, as long as I remain in a state of grace. Once in a while, though, they come popping out when I least expect them. As long as I change my thoughts, pray, and busy myself all is fine.
I still mention them in confession, not as to their sinfulness, but as a way of thanking God for the help He has given me in overcoming them, and asking for His continued graces through the sacrament to help me continue the fight.
Never doubt God’s ability to be merciful and forgive. No matter how many times we fall, get up, look toward your Saviour , and keep going. In the midst of my struggles with this problem, I found the book of Philippians to be very comforting.
May God continue to bless you in your struggles, and may you be abundantly surrounded by our Lord’s peace and love,
Robin L. in TX
C
Coder
Guest
Don’t waste your time with this line of reasoning.
Seek and pray to avoid impure thoughts and if they cross your mind, don’t worry about it. It’s hard not to think about something when you are thinking about how you are trying not to think about it. Mind games anyone?
You know what I mean Just do your best and seek to focus on Jesus. Humble yourself and accept God’s help.
“When I am weak, then I am strong.”
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Acknowledge you are human.
Remember your divinity.
Don’t worry about it after that.
I like the idea that if you don’t know if it’s mortal, it probably isn’t.
Too many people worry too much about whether to beat themselves up. It’s good that you ask, and if you’re lucky you’ll even get an answer!
Besides, I’ve thought about this probably too much. When do I “willingly” entertain a thought, vs. entertaining one just because “it’s the way I am.”
That’s why I harp so much on the spiritual journey, and on contemplative prayer forms. I think they can help one deal with one’s natural tendency toward sin while not becoming obsessed and fearful over it.
Alan
Alan
Remember your divinity.
Don’t worry about it after that.
I like the idea that if you don’t know if it’s mortal, it probably isn’t.
Too many people worry too much about whether to beat themselves up. It’s good that you ask, and if you’re lucky you’ll even get an answer!
Besides, I’ve thought about this probably too much. When do I “willingly” entertain a thought, vs. entertaining one just because “it’s the way I am.”
That’s why I harp so much on the spiritual journey, and on contemplative prayer forms. I think they can help one deal with one’s natural tendency toward sin while not becoming obsessed and fearful over it.
Alan
Alan
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Lux_et_veritas
Guest
I often wondered how I would know if I crossed the line. That is, when I started taking my faith serious enough to even contemplate that question.
Here is what I came up with…
At the point that I recognize the impure thought is before me I have a choice:
A) Distract myself in an effort to lose it
B) Remain in the thought, thus committing a sin.
When you really think about it, if you choose B, what other reason would there be than to take pleasure in it (impurity that is)? It becomes entertainment.
Recognize the moment and turn away from it. Chances are, it is your guardian angel or the Holy Spirit whispering in your heart that you are on dangerous ground. Recognize that call to turn away from it.
I like to use a model called the Ladder of Temptation too. That defining moment you find yourself on the first rung. If you choose B, you ascend to the next rung at this point. Now, you are truly putting yourself in the near occasion of sin, if not outright sin when you climb (to remain after recognition is to seek entertainment from it). Also, for each rung you climb, the severity of the temptation increases and it becomes more difficult to descend without falling completely. The whole morale of the story is to get down off the ladder the moment you recognize you are on it.
It’s one thing to fall after many valiant efforst. Its another to simply fall without fighting.
Here is what I came up with…
At the point that I recognize the impure thought is before me I have a choice:
A) Distract myself in an effort to lose it
B) Remain in the thought, thus committing a sin.
When you really think about it, if you choose B, what other reason would there be than to take pleasure in it (impurity that is)? It becomes entertainment.
Recognize the moment and turn away from it. Chances are, it is your guardian angel or the Holy Spirit whispering in your heart that you are on dangerous ground. Recognize that call to turn away from it.
I like to use a model called the Ladder of Temptation too. That defining moment you find yourself on the first rung. If you choose B, you ascend to the next rung at this point. Now, you are truly putting yourself in the near occasion of sin, if not outright sin when you climb (to remain after recognition is to seek entertainment from it). Also, for each rung you climb, the severity of the temptation increases and it becomes more difficult to descend without falling completely. The whole morale of the story is to get down off the ladder the moment you recognize you are on it.
- If you are on a computer or TV - get off or change stations.
- If you are isolated, get yourself around people.
- If you are in the company of people who causing temptation, get yourself somewhere else.
- Above all, say a prayer to the Blessed Mother or St. Joseph
It’s one thing to fall after many valiant efforst. Its another to simply fall without fighting.
P
PMV
Guest
Thank you all for posting here; you have been a great help.
What if a person does attempt to distract him or herself from the thoughts but for some reason they remain in the mind a little bit, and *then *the thoughts leave?
What if a person does attempt to distract him or herself from the thoughts but for some reason they remain in the mind a little bit, and *then *the thoughts leave?
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johnq
Guest
Then you are obtaining virtue and receiving untold graces from God.
The past way to distract oneself from impure thoughts is prayer.
Keep up the good work.
C
Coder
Guest
Is this sin or psychology? See what I mean?
At mass the priest prays “In your mercy, keep us free from sin and all anxiety.”
Ask God’s help. His light can show us the way and set us free. His love takes us to new places. That’s where we want to be. To live in His love, that is the answer.
We might think, “First, I’ll become holy and then I’ll focus more on my true relationship with Jesus and His love.”
I think first we have God’s grace and live in His love. This is what makes us holy and transforms us.
Read Romans 6 especially vs. 17-18
B
BibleReader
Guest
There’s a point there where a normal person is below the sin theshhold.
One of my law school professors was a spectacularly gorgeous lady who knew how good she looked in faded jeans and a cable knit sweater. One would have had to have been castrated to not have an initial wayward thought needing suppression, in dealing with her in that law school course.
That initial wayward thought is the internal signal to the unavailable male to avert the gaze.
P
PaulKorb
Guest
Robin L. in TX:
Great answer …
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