"What if" question

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Uknowhoo

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If a woman is married and has children, and then her husband dies, can she become a nun?

Just wondering, no real reason.
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In some orders, yes. The Mother Superior of the Carmelite order in my city is a grandmother.
 
Hey, I know this one!!
Yes, she can. I know because I had a neighbor, years ago, whose mom was widowed, & a fairly short time thereafter, she became a nun. She told her family, that before she met & married their father, she had planned to become a nun, so after she was widowed, that was what she did.
I always will remember seeing her over at the house for family reunions, and she always wore her habit.
 
Well, most likely any order will want her children to become self sufficient adults first. And then there is the matter of many orders only accepting people up to a certain age. But, strictly speaking, there is no reason why she couldn’t enter the religious life.
 
chicago said:
Well, most likely any order will want her children to become self sufficient adults first. And then there is the matter of many orders only accepting people up to a certain age. But, strictly speaking, there is no reason why she couldn’t enter the religious life.
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I do not think that “self sufficient adults” would be the requirement.

I think that orders would only require that the child be adults.
 
ByzCath said:
I do not think that “self sufficient adults” would be the requirement.

I think that orders would only require that the child be adults.
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In a practical sense though it would probably be difficult though for a woman to devote herself to the religious life if her children are still dependent on her in any way.
 
LilyM said:
In a practical sense though it would probably be difficult though for a woman to devote herself to the religious life if her children are still dependent on her in any way.
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Yes, this would be her choice. The order would say that her children must be adults so that they are no longer her legal responsibility. If the woman choses to stay responsible for them in any way then she would not be accepted into the order as that would be a strong sign that she does not have a vocation to religious life.
 
ByzCath said:
Yes, this would be her choice. The order would say that her children must be adults so that they are no longer her legal responsibility. If the woman choses to stay responsible for them in any way then she would not be accepted into the order as that would be a strong sign that she does not have a vocation to religious life.
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There’s a sense of moral responsibility, also, which the mother might have. Say, for example, that the child has certain special needs or is in difficult health. She may not be the mothers legal responsibility, but would perhaps be her moral responsibility yet. Which is why I noted that they’d, practically, need to be on their own before the mother could, realistically, pursue religious life.

Of course, there is the example of the saint (I forget which one) who literally stepped over her children when they begged her not to leave them to join/(found?) an order.
 
chicago said:
There’s a sense of moral responsibility, also, which the mother might have. Say, for example, that the child has certain special needs or is in difficult health. She may not be the mothers legal responsibility, but would perhaps be her moral responsibility yet. Which is why I noted that they’d, practically, need to be on their own before the mother could, realistically, pursue religious life.

Of course, there is the example of the saint (I forget which one) who literally stepped over her children when they begged her not to leave them to join/(found?) an order.
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In was just stating the facts as I know them. Many orders only place the stipulation that children be adults.

Anyways, I am not 100% sure if there is any moral responsibility for parents to continue to support and care for their adult children. That is no one can say that they have to do so, it is 100% the parent’s decision and no one can really say they are wrong in what they chose, at least that is my opinion.
 
ByzCath said:
Anyways, I am not 100% sure if there is any moral responsibility for parents to continue to support and care for their adult children. That is no one can say that they have to do so, it is 100% the parent’s decision and no one can really say they are wrong in what they chose, at least that is my opinion.
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It’s a topic for another thread and forum, certainly. One which perhaps ought to be taken up somewhere/sometime. But it is worth pondering and does in some ways apply to this question as to discernment of religious life. What are our moral (as distinct from mere legal) responsibilities for a child’s well being? If the parent is at some time no longer responsible (particularly for a child who, perhaps, is or seems unable to care for himself for some good, legitimate reason), then who is responsible for that now adult child’s welfare?
 
chicago said:
It’s a topic for another thread and forum, certainly. One which perhaps ought to be taken up somewhere/sometime. But it is worth pondering and does in some ways apply to this question as to discernment of religious life. What are our moral (as distinct from mere legal) responsibilities for a child’s well being? If the parent is at some time no longer responsible (particularly for a child who, perhaps, is or seems unable to care for himself for some good, legitimate reason), then who is responsible for that now adult child’s welfare?
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Yes, a worthy topic for another thread but I would like to pose an answer to your question. How about that adult child? At some point we have to be responsible for ourselves.
 
ByzCath said:
Yes, a worthy topic for another thread but I would like to pose an answer to your question. How about that adult child? At some point we have to be responsible for ourselves.
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I don’t think you are following where I am headed with the concern and question, however. Yes, an average adult ought to be able to care for himself. Sheesh, an average teenager or many an adolescent ought to be able to. Yet, there may be special circumstances which take greater care and time or a situation where a child has more severe challenges in life or health, for instance. In this case, the person likely needs a helping hand along the way in order to successfully integrate and maybe even function in the world. Indeed, in some instances full self sufficiency may be fleeting, at best.

Basically, what I’m arguing is that a parent can’t reasonably just leave an average child completely on their own to run off to religious life without first providing the necessary opportunities for the son/daughter to get on his/her own. Also, a parent who has a child that, for some good reason, is more dependent upon others for help to get by in life would not likely be a good candidate for entering religious life; at least until these circumstances were demonstated as having been properly addressed and such burdens of responsibility are with a degree of certainability out of the parent’s hands. Only then is the person truly free to enter into a community.
 
chicago said:
Only then is the person truly free to enter into a community.
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I think differently but… It all comes down to the discernment of the individual and the community.

They will determine what is correct in this matter.

All that I have seen is that the child must be an adult. No mention of being responsible or self sufficient (which are very subjective terms anyways).
 
ByzCath said:
I think differently but… It all comes down to the discernment of the individual and the community.

They will determine what is correct in this matter.
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I suppose that I would generally agree.
All that I have seen is that the child must be an adult. No mention of being responsible or self sufficient (which are very subjective terms anyways).
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Probably all that can be truly stated as a norm is for the child to be an adult, seeing as how everything else is some sense dependent upon particular circumstances. That, however, does not mean that, in reality, there wouldn’t be something more left for serious consideration in regards to the actual situation which the parent is leaving behind.
 
I am the mother of a six year old son who has cerebral palsy. I also have two other healthy sons. If my husband were to depart this mortal coil before me (and my sons were all adults) I still do not think I would be free to join a religious order.

My special needs son, William, will need me till the day he enters into his rest. I do believe that it is my moral obligation to care for him as best I can until this time. Therefore I very much doubt that God would call me (or any other mother of a child with special needs) into a religious vocation as it would clash with my vocation as a mother. Even if my child was technically an adult he will never be self-sufficient and IMHO my parental responsibilities will continue until the day I die or am no longer physically/mentally able to care for my son.

Funnily enough I chose St Elizabeth Ann Seton as my confirmation saint. I had not heard that she “stepped over her children while they begged her not to leave them.” I hope it is not true actually, as I can’t imagine any mother doing such a thing - and I would certainly not have chosen her for my patron saint if she had.

Every biography I have read on St Elizabeth Ann states that she took her children with her into the new community of The Sisters of Charity and that this was one of the conditions of her agreeing to found it. Her daughter Anna actually entered into the novitiate too, but died soon after. I think she was allowed to take her vows just before she died.

So any frazzled mother thinking of running off to the serene silence of the convent 'cos “St Elizabeth Ann Seton did” think again! 😛
 
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