P
Ph0enix
Guest
What if there were no angels that sinned and betrayed God? This is just a question that pops in my head from time to time
- Status
M
Micosil
Guest
The angels were apparently created with free will. If none of them fell, it’d be reasonable to assume they perhaps didn’t have free will. This would be more in line with the Islamic idea of angel, where angels are only good and it’s the djinns that have free will, like humans, to rebel against God.
G
Glomung
Guest
Then you would be living in a reality other than the one we have here.
F
friardchips
Guest
Hi again.
The whooseywotsits? The name sounds more as if it is from a branch of Buddhism? Do you know how it is that Islam came to believe that angels were only good?
M
Micosil
Guest
Hey.
Well, I haven’t studied Muslim theology in depth, but note one thing: in Islam, it is the angel Gabriel that dictated the Qur’an to the prophet Muhammad. Since this was an angel who, in Islam, can only do good, it seems to be follow that whatever was in said dictation is all-good and devoid of error. Apparently it was made so that the Qur’an could only be delivered by an entity who could only do good, and thus deliver the word of God perfectly. But again, I’m not a theologian of Islam, so if any Muslim wishes to correct me, you are more than welcome.
I believe djinns are usually represented as “genies” in art and literature that deals with Islamic culture. The obvious example being Aladdin.
F
friardchips
Guest
I’m not a muslim but looking from the outside in can only say that ‘angels’ only being good according to the Islam religion - for the very reason you’ve stated - is yet another piece fitting the puzzle. Thank you.Hey.
Well, I haven’t studied Muslim theology in depth, but note one thing: in Islam, it is the angel Gabriel that dictated the Qur’an to the prophet Muhammad. Since this was an angel who, in Islam, can only do good, it seems to be follow that whatever was in said dictation is all-good and devoid of error. Apparently it was made so that the Qur’an could only be delivered by an entity who could only do good, and thus deliver the word of God perfectly. But again, I’m not a theologian of Islam, so if any Muslim wishes to correct me, you are more than welcome.
Sorry, yes. was thinking of a different spelling: ‘Jinns’. Same mythological creatures. Don’t these also appear in other eastern religions including Japanese mythology? I always had Jinns down as being demon-like?!
Hereby declaring, that this is the ‘Battle of the Flying Carpets’.
M
Micosil
Guest
Hm, I’ve tried to Google for a Japanese connection, but can’t really find it. Nevertheless, there is a connection to other faith systems and cultures:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinn#In_the_Guanche_mythology
The reason you may think that they’re demon-like is because djinns have free will, and some rebelled against God and became what is called Shaitan, the Islamic counterpart of the fallen angels of Christianity, also known as demons.
F
friardchips
Guest
Hey, thanks! Will check this link out! I feel like reading something.
Hm, I’ve tried to Google for a Japanese connection, but can’t really find it. Nevertheless, there is a connection to other faith systems and cultures:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinn#In_the_Guanche_mythology
The reason you may think that they’re demon-like is because djinns have free will, and some rebelled against God and became what is called Shaitan, the Islamic counterpart of the fallen angels of Christianity, also known as demons.
F
friardchips
Guest
In answer to you, I’d say that if all angels had not rebelled despite being given a choice then I guess Adam and Eve would not have been tempted to sin in the Garden of Eden. Therefore, their offspring, if they were to have offspring, would have been sinless (presumably).
Micosil, going back to the subject of Jinns, maybe it is safe to say that if the Jinn aspect of Islam were to be omitted, maybe such demonic outbreaks that influence radically aggressive versions of the belief system, might not be so violent in reality. The way Jinns can move fast, via the wind and such like, reminds me of ISIS, and the way they spread so quickly like wild-fire. I would say that if a people believe in Jinns then here is your demonic, your diabolical, influence. I wonder if priests performed exorcisms on certain ‘radical branches’ of Islam, whether they’d find many people to be spiritually possessed? As well as exorcising Mexico, they could do the same in the Middle East; in fact, it is mind-blowing, that no one has done this, already…! (love using the U.S “already” emphasis - we don’t do this in the U.K) - they should do this, already.
P
Pythagoras
Guest
God is Good. These angels would then still be in the Heavenly Choir then. Saints would no longer be taking the seats of the fallen angels in the Heavenly Choir. It is said that the Seraphic St. Francis of Assisi took the beautiful seat of Lucifer
M
mikekle
Guest
If satan or any other angels never rebelled against God and no such thing as demons, we would essentially have no other choice but God and what is good, there would be no one ‘whispering’ in your ear, to go ahead and sin, go ahead and lust, go ahead and steal, etc. We may have some human inclinations towards some sin, but nothing like what we experience today.
In other words, if there was no fall, we would all be little robots to God, in a sense, Satan was needed to take the fall, in order to be ‘the alternative’ to good and to God, without Satan/ demons, there would only be one choice for all us.
In other words, if there was no fall, we would all be little robots to God, in a sense, Satan was needed to take the fall, in order to be ‘the alternative’ to good and to God, without Satan/ demons, there would only be one choice for all us.
F
friardchips
Guest
Not sure we’d be ‘robots’. There would still be room for education and to understand one’s origin. Also, they could also have been given a choice but not with the same guile of temptation, maybe. The same choice that satan was given. It was the severity of the Fall. satan’s fall was so horrific - due to the fact that he was made so radiant and still chose to be ungrateful - and it was of this same guile of momentous degree that he was given access to Adam and Eve. It might be that Adam and Eve might have had thoughts still as to eating from the Tree of Knowledge, but that there would have been no guile to make the decision tempting. They were in a sanctified state. Some of the early Church Father’s said “naive”. “Naive” I would take to mean ‘innocent’, in terms of their state, but “naive” in relation to their vulnerability, to satan’s devious whisperings.
P
Pythagoras
Guest
Yes, there is still a choice. Even if the fallen angels did not fall, I believe God will still test Adam and Eve nevertheless, if they are indeed worthy of gaining Heaven or not.
- Status