What if you change your mind once you die?

[canadianlife]

I have a friend. He’s an agnostic, leaning more to the atheism side of things. I explain to him Christianity and everything, but he’s too science-y to accept it. Anyways, he did say that if he died, and we Christians were right (which we are ) then he would accept God. My question is would this be too late? If even the most atheist of atheists died, then they were judged by God and wanted to be with Him, could they choose then? Or would it be too late?

 

[Mike_Olson]

I think it would be a little to late for a conversion at that point.

 

[snowman10]

Why not err on the side with the best possible outcome. Even if he were to be right on no God (he isn’t) the end would simply be that. Nothingness. However, if there is a God (which there is) his outcome could possibly be quite bad. So err on the side of good. It just makes more sense.

DU

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

i have a friend like this too. he’s been athiest in the past, then christian, and now basically agnostic. but he’s also a very accepting person and said he wished that he had the faith that i and another friend have, but doesnt. i think later on he’ll come around again, but either way when he dies i know he’ll have no trouble accepting God.

 

[stbruno]

Do you remember from scripture the story about the death of the rich man and the beggar Lazarus. Because the rich man never shared anything with the poor man he was sent to hell. When he gets there and realizes his error, he asks God if he can return to warn his brothers of what he has done to spare them. Instead God says, I myself warned you and you did not listen, what makes you think that you can make a difference. The answer is simple, it is too late. Repent and Believe now. Because we know not the time or the day when death will take us. It comes like a thief in the night!

 

[Sgt_Sweaters]

stbruno is right. God has given us ample reason here and now to follow him, and plenty of opportunity to know him. Why would he have gone to all the trouble of special revelation (e.g., Scripture, prophecy, the Incarnation) if we could just hold out until death to join the Kingdom?
This world is where we must make our decisions.

 

[Zooey]

I think the problem is that once you die, you won’t change your mind. By which I mean, that I believe that atheists’ & agnostics’ disbelief in the existence of God is a free choice; it has nothing to do with “not seeing enough evidence”. They are in active rebellion against God. So even when they see the Just Judge, they will still be in rebellion …
This is a very sad thing, but I believe it is the truth. So, even if there were another chance (I don’t think there is, but if),they wouldn’t take it.

 

[DeniseR]

Why don’t you suggest he take Paschal’s Wager? He could learn about the existence of God and the reasons for believing in Intelligent Design. Tell him to ask God to help him understand and cooperate with understanding. He is analytical and so he will probably question everything but if he wants to believe and prays for assistance then the Holy Spirit will open his heart to understanding. If he starts out with an open mind he may come around. Personally, I think God is already working on him simply because he’s asking questions and sees how your faith effects you.

 

[CatQuilt]

CS Lewis was a non-believer too but he came to realize that there is a God. Give your friend a copy of “Mere Christianity”. He (Lewis) also wrote many other excellent books (fiction and non-fiction).

 

[space_ghost]

…i guess you could use the, “what have you got to loose if i’m wrong” logic… if he’s right then he goes no where… if your right he could very well be risking hell… but if he comes to your side and you are wrong, then he still goes no where…(nothing to loose if he’s ultimately right)…Right?
http://www.geocities.com/twobits_2/ghostlong.jpg

 

[FiremanFrank]

Zooey
I think the problem is that once you die, you won’t change your mind. By which I mean, that I believe that atheists’ & agnostics’ disbelief in the existence of God is a free choice; it has nothing to do with “not seeing enough evidence”. They are in active rebellion against God. So even when they see the Just Judge, they will still be in rebellion …
This is a very sad thing, but I believe it is the truth. So, even if there were another chance (I don’t think there is, but if),they wouldn’t take it.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

That is **EXACTLY **and PRECISELY the Church’s Teaching on the matter.

Nic job Zooey! :clapping:

 

[jmv]

space ghost:

…i guess you could use the, “what have you got to loose if i’m wrong” logic… if he’s right then he goes no where… if your right he could very well be risking hell… but if he comes to your side and you are wrong, then he still goes no where…(nothing to loose if he’s ultimately right)…Right?

This is Paschal’s Wager, which Denise brought up earlier. I got beat to the punch on that one, but it is esentially as you state.

If there are 2 choices to “bet on”: belief and unbelief; by choosing belief, you are “playing with the house’s money” because there are only 2 options, Win or Draw. If you win, and your belief was correct you gain everything, but if you lose and your belief was incorrect, the outcome would have been the same either way and at least you led a good life.

If you choose unbelief, there are only 2 results; Lose or Draw. If you did not believe, and God doesn’t exist, it ends the same for the believer and the unbeliever. If you were wrong, and God does exist, then you lose your eternal soul.

Paschal came up with this when gambling was big in France. Essentially, if you were to put a wager in front of someone that paid out on only one side, why would anybody put their chips on the other?

Also, it’s lose, not loose. You lose at basketball, while you loose a knot. I suppose you could lose a loose knot, but…

 

[MistyF]

I was agnostic, bordering on atheism. My boyfriend asked me one day that when we have children, he wants them raised Catholic, and wanted them baptized. His reasoning was that it was better safe than sorry. I agreed to the baptism, but it was important to me that they be raised with the choice to be whatever they wanted, and if he wanted to teach them Catholicism, that was fine as long as he allowed them to make their own choices. Of course, at the time I was also questioning things - just a little, but the questions were there. Because I once had faith in God and the bible, the jump to having faith was almost overnight. Initially I told myself that the curiousity was just so that I could prove to myself that the JWs were wrong. But my bf had asked me to promise him that whatever I did, I would keep an open mind. That if I saw reason to believe, or felt the need to, that I wouldn’t reject it simply because I had been doing so already in the past. That I listen to what I read. And that did it for me. I saw that the JWs were wrong, but I saw that the Catholic Church had to be right, if any church was. So, even though I didn’t let myself say I believed then, I continued to look, and it just felt right. One day I woke up and I just knew that the Catholic Church was God’s Church.

 

[Ben_G]

jmv:

This is Paschal’s Wager, which Denise brought up earlier. I got beat to the punch on that one, but it is esentially as you state.

If there are 2 choices to “bet on”: belief and unbelief; by choosing belief, you are “playing with the house’s money” because there are only 2 options, Win or Draw. If you win, and your belief was correct you gain everything, but if you lose and your belief was incorrect, the outcome would have been the same either way and at least you led a good life.

If you choose unbelief, there are only 2 results; Lose or Draw. If you did not believe, and God doesn’t exist, it ends the same for the believer and the unbeliever. If you were wrong, and God does exist, then you lose your eternal soul.

I think the issue is a little more complicated than this theory would suggest. One either has faith or one doesn’t – it’s not exactly something you can “bet” on. God certainly knows the difference between those who truly believe and those who do not believe but pretend to do so in the event that they are wrong.

 

[DeniseR]

Ben_G:

I think the issue is a little more complicated than this theory would suggest. One either has faith or one doesn’t – it’s not exactly something you can “bet” on. God certainly knows the difference between those who truly believe and those who do not believe but pretend to do so in the event that they are wrong.

I don’t know if it’s “pretending” but “searching for truth”. In the meantime, one who takes the wager is in the right frame of mind to accept the possiblity that there is a God. It gets someone on the right path to faith, even if one does not have full faith and belief yet.

I think that at one time or another we are all a “doubting Thomas”. The important thing is to keep trying to deepen our faith and understanding.

I heard something on Catholic Answers Live the other day from Rosalyn Moss. A caller said that she didn’t feel enthusiastic and euphoric about her faith. She didn’t feel emotional as she thought she should. Rosalyn explained that that was even better than feeling emotion. When we consciously live out our faith even though we don’t feel that emotion, that’s when we know we truly love God. Emotion isn’t driving us, we are choosing to follow God. I didn’t use the eloquent wording that Rosalyn did but what she said really hit home with me.