What is an "Unchurched" Christian?

[Tartini]

What is an “unchurched” Christian? As a Catholic Evangelist I have been acquainted with many persons who just believe that a person need not go to a church in order to be a Christian. As A Catholic, I am obligated to persuade them to join the only True Church, but this confuses them, so often a necessary crash course in Catholicism is given, which is more information than they can handle in a single sitting. Even after my humble efforts to point out truth, they maintain that “church” is unnecessary and that one only has to follow Christ and just try to be good. They attempt to prove their point by pointing out many passages from a often forgotten and dusty Bible, when they can find them, and they are convinced that they have all the answers. Obstinacy in ignorance disturbs me greatly. It makes dialogue absolutely limited, if not impossible to any productive ends.

I explain that it is one thing to have the tool, but one must know how to use it to work with it effectively. The Church offers these tools and one can rest assured they are getting the best advice available anywhere. I have done some online research on the attitude of what is considered “unchurched” but seem to find little in way of Catholic guidance in this often sadly encountered situation. I have suspicions as to why they think this way, but need some guidance as what I need to do to help them consider more important reasons to be Catholic. I explain truths that seem often too much work for them to consider, and this is part of the problem. They want an easy road to salvation, but don’t want to sacrifice their “freedoms”.Often it ends up as an absolute refusal of the teachings of the Church, pointing out every flaw they can think of concerning the Church and still maintain they are Christians. Thanks for any guidance here. Some websites or books that address the situation would be very helpful.

 

[Rolltide]

I think you hit upon part of the problem already. By throwing too much information at them at once, you’re in fact supporting their own belief that “Church” is man-made and full of too many complicated and unnecessary rules. Instead, try picking ONE idea central to the Catholic faith, and convincing them of that. If you can get them to admit that they’re wrong on just ONE point, you might get them to investigate what you have to say further.

If it were me, I’d use the Real Presence of the Eucharist. It’s one of the ideas for which there is the MOST support from the early church, and you can use that to your advantage. If you can show that early Christians almost certainly believed in the Real Presence, you can then ask her why she doesn’t. If she’s wrong on this interpretation, then what else might she be wrong on? Also, what denominations then hold to that interpretation of the Real Presence?

IF you get past that point, then pick another key doctrine, and work that, until her options keep getting whittled down.

If you want, I can provide a nice article on belief in the Real Presence during the early church that I compiled a while ago.

 

[Tartini]

Thanks for the reply. That article would be helpful, thank you. I will tone my presentation down a little, as you are right: too much information is overwhelming, but they tend to ask many questions. Most of the time I refer them to a good Catholic Apologetic site, if they even take the time to look and read it. Most don’t and some won’t.

Now you are correct in presenting the Holy Eucharist to them, which always comes up when they ask about the “cookie” we eat. This is a bad sign right from the start. After explaining the word “Eucharist” which many believe is a statue we pray to, I will get on to the Real Presence aspect and attempt to explain the mystical in a way that they will understand. The explanation that Christ is RIGHT THERE is often met with fantastic disbelief in both the idea of it and that anyone would be naive enough to believe it. I used to physically take people who said they wanted to meet Christ to the local Catholic Church and show them the Tabernacle, often with very strange looks from them in the process. I would point to the Tabernacle and say “There is Christ” and be saddened by their response of “where?” or “I know, He’s on the Cross”. Some have said to me that they are now convinced that the Church is not only brainwashing us Catholics, but forgot to put our brains back in when they were finished. I will try to show them scripture (use their own technique, yes?) At this point, they believe I have lost my mind or something, and it is when I have my work cut out for me. Admittedly, I can see where they are believing me mad, as I often make the statement concerning the Real Presence, but don’t confirm the truths well enough to convince them it is biblical.

The Real Presence is such a deep subject for some to comprehend, and one in which real faith is needed. You hit on the most important aspect of the Church, one which I often avoid in early dialogue for the sheer reason that I fear they are going to think “cannibal” somewhere in their thought processes of the idea. But if they ask, then I must be prepared with an answer. Thank you for the very sound advice. I thought about your statement and just realized there is going to be a lot of work involved I can see that now, so pray for me.

 

[Rolltide]

Tartini,
Here’s a link to the thread with my response. Look at posts #8-15.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=425641&highlight=Debating+the+real+presence+w/+a+Protestant

Here are some of the key points to your argument:

1. The Real Presence is actually the MAJORITY opinion among Christians.
2. Since the Bible can be interpreted many different ways, we should look to the earliest Christians as an example of how THEY interpreted difficult passages.
3. Early Christians believed in the Real Presence (show the quotes).
4. Therefore, Jesus was being literal when he said “This is My Body, this is My Blood”.
5. Read “The Lamb’s Supper” by Scott Hahn. It’s short and to the point, and illustrates the IMPORTANCE of the Eucharist, and shows how it is prefigured and predicted by both the Old Testament and Revelations.

 

[Big_Dummy]

Arguing Religion with such a person is the wrong approach because that person has likely been abused by a church. You should ask them questions about their history. Did you ever go to church? What was that church like? What happened at that church? stir the conversation towards spiritual abuse and healing from that abuse. Try to be as gentile and sensitive as possible – you need more to listen then preach.

 

[Tartini]

Thanks, doubter, for the common sense advice. I am very aware of what I am dealing with or obviously they would not need to be helped. Most are just uninformed about the truths of the Church, and many are just hard headed. I present a confidence to them that is irrefutable. They have no defense, as they have no sound learning. People need to get over that sad situation of holding a “church” responsible. It is usually the persons fault in the first place. They seek some sect that will cater to them, which is unrealistic and wrong. It is often a difficult thing to be a Catholic, but the reward far outweigh the amount of work involved. The people I talk to seek an easy road to salvation, which is impossible.

 

[Big_Dummy]

I suggest you research a site called Stop Spiritual Abuse or something like that, often it is in fact their church that is really at fault. Yes, there are immaginary problems too on the part of the person, but that may not be the case. Like I said, it is better to practice your listening skills with these people to build a relationship.

 

[Tartini]

If I were not sure of what the person is saying, why would it be necessary to attempt to help them? The answer you give me is useful, but you are assuming my abilities as a Catholic Evangelist. I think I get where you are coming from, particularly since I have looked at some of the other posts you have placed on CA.

I understand what you are saying, and that is only one of the aspects that must be considered. I tend of persuade rather than convince when it comes to dealing with a person on such a dire matter as their eternal salvation. If they have deep rooted problems such as what you are referring to, then they need a psychiatrist–and I assure you that many could use one from what I often hear. The Catholic Church offers healing in many ways. This is at least a first step for them. They will not find a better guidance to salvation anywhere else.

 

[PJM]

=Tartini;6879170]What is an “unchurched” Christian? As a Catholic Evangelist I have been acquainted with many persons who just believe that a person need not go to a church in order to be a Christian. As A Catholic, I am obligated to persuade them to join the only True Church, but this confuses them, so often a necessary crash course in Catholicism is given, which is more information than they can handle in a single sitting. Even after my humble efforts to point out truth, they maintain that “church” is unnecessary and that one only has to follow Christ and just try to be good. They attempt to prove their point by pointing out many passages from a often forgotten and dusty Bible, when they can find them, and they are convinced that they have all the answers. Obstinacy in ignorance disturbs me greatly. It makes dialogue absolutely limited, if not impossible to any productive ends.

I explain that it is one thing to have the tool, but one must know how to use it to work with it effectively. The Church offers these tools and one can rest assured they are getting the best advice available anywhere. I have done some online research on the attitude of what is considered “unchurched” but seem to find little in way of Catholic guidance in this often sadly encountered situation. I have suspicions as to why they think this way, but need some guidance as what I need to do to help them consider more important reasons to be Catholic. I explain truths that seem often too much work for them to consider, and this is part of the problem. They want an easy road to salvation, but don’t want to sacrifice their “freedoms”.Often it ends up as an absolute refusal of the teachings of the Church, pointing out every flaw they can think of concerning the Church and still maintain they are Christians. Thanks for any guidance here. Some websites or books that address the situation would be very helpful.

“Unchurched” in my opinion is one who either does not know what we believe and Teach or chooses not to accept what we teach.

The soluation although [at times] incomplete in effect of application is THOROUGH knowledge of the Bible, so that we can verify [prayerfuly in a form acceptable to the unchurched] what and WHY we hold to the Truths that we do.

For Example the issue of Mass reltes to the Commandments:

Commandments

**Exo. 20: **
And God spoke all these words, saying, "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. "You shall have no other gods before me.”
"You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; “Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day”

Love and prayers,

 

[Catechist4ALL]

To Tartini
I am curious as to how you became a “Catholic Evangelist” ? I am very familiar with what you are talking about with unchurched Christians. Also, another issue I have noticed is with protestants who only seem to attend “Church” on Wednesday night! I see a BIG
need to “Catechize” our protestant friends as so many of them are misinformed about the Catholic Church.