What is considered a marriage under Gods law?

[Sublime_Prince]

Ok this is something I have been discussing with my girlfriend. She is worried about continually sinning and not being married. But I corrected her and told her we really are married, even though not offically by the state.

I don’t want to marry her under our states law because we simply can’t afford to, but I consider us married under God’s law.

If I marry her she will loose all her disability insurance, her rent will go up or she may even loose her aptartment, and her credit will suffer. Also it is better for her to depend on the government to pay for her via her disabilty benefits than me. I am not reliable when it comes to holding down a job or a wife being able to support herself on my salary. She cannot work she has no choice she is too physically disabled to work.

So I asked her how did people get married in biblical times? What did marriage mean? Did they get married in a church in the time of Moses or Jesus? Nope. Did they have to have a court make them married ? Nope.

So basically I told her I consider us married under God and we have made vows to each other and that we don’t need a court to tell us that or a minister.

Is there anything in the scriptures that says to be considered married in God’s eye you must be married in a church or a court?

 

[rpp]

Before I can comment, I want to make certain I understand your situation.

What you are saying is you want to have sex with her, lie to her and yourself claiming you are married “in God’s eyes”, twist scripture so you can justify using each other sexually? And doing all this in order to circumvent legitimate law so you both can collect more money?

Have I got that right?

Under God’s law, it is not a marriage until it has been blessed by a priest.

Yes, this seems harsh, but is that not what you are doing? Be one or the other. Get legally married and enjoy marital life, with it’s joys and struggles, or be chaste. There are no other choices.

 

[Publisher]

Among the Society of Friends marriage takes place when two people in the presence of Friends pledge their lives to one another.

There is no “minister” or “priest” who presides. Two people request the Monthly Meeting to allow their relationship to be put under their care. After a proper amount of time, the Monthly Meeting agrees that the couples relationship will be taken under it’s care.

At the Meeting for Worship for Marriage, the couple stand at the appointed time, face one another and say "“In the presence of God and these our Friends, I take thee … to be my partner(husband)(wife), promising with Divine assistance to be unto thee a loving and faithful partner(husband) (wife) so long as we both shall live.” …when seated they sign the certificate and thus they are married. The guests sign the certificate and if it is to be registered with the state, the Clerk of the Meeting and two witnesses sign the marriage license.

In the Meeting I attend, same sex relationships are also accepted, some “straight” Friends have opted to not register their marriage with the State until all relationships are recongnized by law, so we have some Friends couples who are “under the care of the Meeting” that are not “married by the state”, but considered “married” by the Meeting…both gay and straight Friends.

It is God who joins two people together, no priest or minister or state official is necessary…only the promise of the couple to be faithful to one another throughout their lives.

 

[rpp]

Among the Society of Friends marriage takes place when two people in the presence of Friends pledge their lives to one another.

There is no “minister” or “priest” who presides. Two people request the Monthly Meeting to allow their relationship to be put under their care. After a proper amount of time, the Monthly Meeting agrees that the couples relationship will be taken under it’s care.

At the Meeting for Worship for Marriage, the couple stand at the appointed time, face one another and say "“In the presence of God and these our Friends, I take thee … to be my partner(husband)(wife), promising with Divine assistance to be unto thee a loving and faithful partner(husband) (wife) so long as we both shall live.” …and thus they are married. The guests sign the certificate and if it is to be registered with the state, the Clerk of the Meeting and two witnesses sign the marriage license.

In the Meeting I attend, same sex relationships are also accepted, some “straight” Friends have opted to not register their marriage with the State until all relationships are recongnized by law, so we have some Friends couples who are “under the care of the Meeting” that are not “married by the state”, but considered “married” by the Meeting…both gay and straight Friends.

It is God who joins two people together, no priest or minister or state official is necessary…only the promise of the couple to be faithful to one another throughout their lives.

Of course none of this is Biblical. Which I believe is what the OP asked.

 

[Publisher]

Of course none of this is Biblical. Which I believe is what the OP asked.

I don’t believe you will find “biblcal” marriage standards that will fill your belief in marriage either.

Some “marriages” in the Bible consisted of the “husband” paying the father of the “bride” a “brde price” and on the appointed day…taking her to his home and…they are married.

While there were celebrations at times, there was no “ministry” joining the two together…it was a price paid to the father and the man taking his bride to his home.

In the story of Ruth, she spent the night with Boaz and was then considered belonging to Boaz…"sleeping at his feet’ was a euphemism of other activity.

The marriage ceremonies we have today bear no resemblance to marriage as conducted in the Bible.

I always found it strange that the Bible was held in the ministers hands during a wedding ceremony, in Protestant circles anyway, but nothing from the Bible was used other than a quote from Genesis or perhaps Ruth…also interesting that the pledge between a same sex couple, Ruth and Naomi, has been used in heterosexual wedding ceremonies for centuries…not to derail the topic, but the young man and his partner are as “married” as any patriarch in Bible times…or New Testament times for that matter…marriage evolved as a ritual of the existing religious establishment way after it became a state function.

 

[mom_of_ten]

Among the Society of Friends marriage takes place when two people in the presence of Friends pledge their lives to one another.

There is no “minister” or “priest” who presides. Two people request the Monthly Meeting to allow their relationship to be put under their care. After a proper amount of time, the Monthly Meeting agrees that the couples relationship will be taken under it’s care.

At the Meeting for Worship for Marriage, the couple stand at the appointed time, face one another and say "“In the presence of God and these our Friends, I take thee … to be my partner(husband)(wife), promising with Divine assistance to be unto thee a loving and faithful partner(husband) (wife) so long as we both shall live.” …when seated they sign the certificate and thus they are married. The guests sign the certificate and if it is to be registered with the state, the Clerk of the Meeting and two witnesses sign the marriage license.

In the Meeting I attend, same sex relationships are also accepted, some “straight” Friends have opted to not register their marriage with the State until all relationships are recongnized by law, so we have some Friends couples who are “under the care of the Meeting” that are not “married by the state”, but considered “married” by the Meeting…both gay and straight Friends.

It is God who joins two people together, no priest or minister or state official is necessary…only the promise of the couple to be faithful to one another throughout their lives.

Since this is a CATHOLIC forum…let us turn to Catholic Teaching.
Catholics must be married in the Church, or have a marriage blessed by the Church in order to be valid in God’s eyes.
Many of the circumstances stated in the quote above are very SINFUL according to the Church, and certainly would NOT be considered valid marriages. The Church does recognize other Sacramental marriages as valid for non-Catholics…but the above would not be valid under that reasoning either.

The OP did not state if he is a Catholic?

 

[Publisher]

Since this is a CATHOLIC forum…let us turn to Catholic Teaching.
Catholics must be married in the Church, or have a marriage blessed by the Church in order to be valid in God’s eyes.
Many of the circumstances stated in the quote above are very SINFUL according to the Church, and certainly would NOT be considered valid marriages. The Church does recognize other Sacramental marriages as valid for non-Catholics…but the above would not be valid under that reasoning either.

The OP did not state if he is a Catholic?

Since this is “Non-Catholic Religions” part of the fourm, my post stands as it is.

 

[mom_of_ten]

Since this is “Non-Catholic Religions” part of the fourm, my post stands as it is.

It is the non-Catholic portion of the forum to discuss topics concerning other religions…but the entire forum is based upon the Teachings of the Catholic Church…thus, Catholic Teaching is always encouraged to be expressed as the Ultimate Truth…and therein, my post stands.

 

[Annie_B]

Hi -
be aware that you will only get “Catholic” answers here. On your profile it says you are protestant so you might want to get info from protestant ministers etc.

However, with that said, do check in to the laws of the state you live in. You may already be legally married under common law. The laws do vary from state to state. Usually common law marriages do not affect things such as insurance, They are mostly beneficial for issues after death.

Ultimately it will be God that judges us all; not man and not priest. You know your reasons and so does God.

Annie

 

[Annie_B]

Among the Society of Friends marriage takes place when two people in the presence of Friends pledge their lives to one another.

There is no “minister” or “priest” who presides. Two people request the Monthly Meeting to allow their relationship to be put under their care. After a proper amount of time, the Monthly Meeting agrees that the couples relationship will be taken under it’s care.

At the Meeting for Worship for Marriage, the couple stand at the appointed time, face one another and say "“In the presence of God and these our Friends, I take thee … to be my partner(husband)(wife), promising with Divine assistance to be unto thee a loving and faithful partner(husband) (wife) so long as we both shall live.” …when seated they sign the certificate and thus they are married. The guests sign the certificate and if it is to be registered with the state, the Clerk of the Meeting and two witnesses sign the marriage license.

In the Meeting I attend, same sex relationships are also accepted, some “straight” Friends have opted to not register their marriage with the State until all relationships are recongnized by law, so we have some Friends couples who are “under the care of the Meeting” that are not “married by the state”, but considered “married” by the Meeting…both gay and straight Friends.

It is God who joins two people together, no priest or minister or state official is necessary…only the promise of the couple to be faithful to one another throughout their lives.

WONDERFUL answer!
Annie

 

[puzzleannie]

Ok this is something I have been discussing with my girlfriend. She is worried about continually sinning and not being married. But I corrected her and told her we really are married, even though not offically by the state.

I don’t want to marry her under our states law because we simply can’t afford to, but I consider us married under God’s law.

If?

you are not married under God’s law unless you have actually followed God’s law, which is embodied in the faith, teachings, practice and canon law of the Catholic Church (if you are Catholic) and under natural law (which is binding on everyone).

 

[alphawebb]

Hummmm. Just joined…just logged on…and found this thread.
What is the church’s stance on getting married in a church verses outside with a view?
As for sublime prince…Do not be afraid., have no fear…doesn’t God provide? You say, I don’t want to marry her under state laws…blah blah blah…we can’t afford …yada yada…I read between the lines…I love her, but…that “but” reveals how much you live in the grip of the world…if you love her you will marry her in the grip of the world…the conventional way…if you do not and don’t want to have kids…then lossen the grip on her and let her find someone who can take care of her in the conventional way…supporting her and any kids she may have…I have read that marriage in the Cathloic church was to procreate…so get a grip and figure it all out …don’t take someone down with you for selfish reasons.

 

[carjack]

First of all, it doesn’t sound like you are mature to get married. I had a pastor marry my husband and I. We were married under God’s law. However, Catholics will disagree with me on this point. Most Christians will not. You have TOO many excuses as to why you will not marry her. You obviously do not HONOR and Love her enough to give her your last name. God will take care of those who trust in HIM. So this stuff that you are worrying about (insurance, house) will be taken care of by God, with a little effort on your part(like keeping a job and providing for your girlfriend) You did not do any kind of special maritial ceremony to be married in God’s eyes. What is the point to your relationship:shrug: You also didn’t go to the Justice of The Peace which is very basic. So in layman’s terms, Christian terms, and Catholic’s terms, the answer is NO!!!

 

[joeybaggz]

The marriage ceremonies we have today bear no resemblance to marriage as conducted in the Bible.

Well, yea, I guess that’s true … if your Bible only has an Old Testament.

Christ radically changed things. First with his emphasis on the marriage relationship as it is ordained by God “from the beginning” and secondly with his refuting the old Mosaic prescriptions for divorce. Then he gave Peter the power to bind and loose, and voila - Catholic teaching on the communal nature and sanctity of marriage.

The Church has been given the right by Christ, through Peter, to bind and loose. Catholic teaching is that marriage is a relationship of man, woman, and God in a living construct called matrimony. It is communal, it is blessed by a priest or an ordained deacon as the Church’s official witness, and it most certainly involves the sanction of the Church. In fact in the Diocese where I attend, the Bishop forbids his priests to officially stand as Church witness at any marriage ceremony performed in any setting outside of a Catholic Church. No weddings in the park, on a beach, in a backyard, etc. etc. - they are to be performed within a Catholic Church. (Dispensations are granted for a Catholic to marry in a non-Catholic Church, and a priest may attend. Doesn’t happen often though)

The one factor that also must be considered however, is that the sacrament of Matrimony is confected (brought into reality) by the two parties involved. The man and THE WOMAN, confer on each other the sacrament. The priest only functions as a church witness. As to the OP’s original post, while I doubt what you have done would be officially sanctioned as a marriage by the church, I also don’t think the church would consider you horribly out of bounds. I’m sure the CC would encourage you to make an honest and dedicated statement to the world that your marriage is a union with God, as God intended it.

As to questions of finances, standing with civil authority, etc. I understand your situation, but the Church has officially made a determination as to “clandestine” marriages. It cannot and will not approve officially. And by the way, this clandestine question isn’t all that uncommon. In Florida for instance, there are a large number of seniors living on Social Security who, if they marry, will lose the second SS income and have to live on just one person’s Social Security. They have petitioned for “clandestine” marriages - one where the marriage is not reported to the civil authorities - and the church has ruled it cannot do so. Not because it is unsympathetic, but because Christ also called us to "render to Caesar, that which is Caesar’s. Remember, a Catholic priest at a wedding is not only a witness of the Church, he is also a bonded agent of the state. At least where I live.

Now, what goes on “unofficially”, I have no idea.

Shalom

 

[Inman]

Common law marriage is valid in some states. My understanding is that in at least one state the test something like:1) you live together, 2) you intend to be married to each other, and 3) you represent yourself to be in fact married to others.

You would need legal advice to determine if your state has common law marriage, have you met the elements, and what the consequences of a common law marriage are, ect.

My understanding is that the particular state’s law I was referring to, it is as valid as any other marriage, i.e. to get divorced you would have to go through the courts. In that state there is no common law divorce. I have no idea if the feds accept such marriages for purposes such as social security and other federal benefits. But my guess is that if the marriage is valid under state law, the feds will accept. Proving its valid under state law without a license may be difficult though.

As for Catholics, inhereit in the authority given to the apostles (and by sucession to the bishops) by Christ, the Church has the authority to make rules for its memebers on how the sacrement of marriage is to be celebrated (ie in church, witnessed by a priest or deacon). In other words by joining the church we have to follow the church’s rules on marriage.

 

[Steadfast]

Before I can comment, I want to make certain I understand your situation.

What you are saying is you want to have sex with her, lie to her and yourself claiming you are married “in God’s eyes”, twist scripture so you can justify using each other sexually? And doing all this in order to circumvent legitimate law so you both can collect more money?

Have I got that right?

Under God’s law, it is not a marriage until it has been blessed by a priest.

Yes, this seems harsh, but is that not what you are doing? Be one or the other. Get legally married and enjoy marital life, with it’s joys and struggles, or be chaste. There are no other choices.

Yep yep

 

[YADA]

If I marry her she will loose all her disability insurance, her rent will go up or she may even loose her aptartment, and her credit will suffer. Also it is better for her to depend on the government to pay for her via her disabilty benefits than me. I am not reliable when it comes to holding down a job or a wife being able to support herself on my salary. She cannot work she has no choice she is too physically disabled to work.

So… what I hear you are saying is that you refuse to follow the laws and regulations of the christian community and the state in which you live by marrying this woman in order to perpetuate a fraud … continuing to receive benefits [reduced rent, disabliity payments and medical care] that she would not qualify for so that you can receive the benefits of a married man [and the benefits of her disability checks, medical coverage and reduce rent without having to *accept any responsibilities upon yourself …

and this follows the teachings of Christ in what way???

In what way is this honoring yourself or your lady friend? … You are using her for her body and her benefits …to be a gain for you and not her … Does this sound even close to laying down your life for a friend? Or like what was once two people becoming one flesh … joined together in unity?

How is this giving from your need [as the widow who gave her 2 mites] as Jesus instructed to us to share ‘generously’ as he gave His very all for us? … You are not sharing or even willing to …

How is this rendering unto Caeser what is Caesar’s? … the government regulates marriages … and the laws that govern how the benefits of marriage [and in this case disability] are dispersed … if you steal or break these laws you are a criminal …stealing from those who follow the laws and pay for our society … like the taxes that go to fund disability payments and subsidized rents … theft is a sin …

A marriage [in the eyes of God - as you discribed it] contracted for the sole purpose of perpetuating a fraud cannot be a real marriage - in the eyes of God nor in the view of society …

Sublime means up-lifting, magnificent, transcendent and awe-inspiring … the antonym [ridiculous] comes to my mind …

And what of the vows … richer/poorer, sickness/health … good times / bad times … how does the attitude you begin the marriage with fit with those? … What if she had been healthy and then became disabled … would you then say

I am not reliable when it comes to holding down a job or a wife