What is good?

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bogeydogg

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In another thread, on which I got way off track sorry about that, that1dude posed the dilemma that a God who requires faith for salvation is not good and a God who requires good actions for salvation is not good.

My question is, what is the “good” by which requiring it makes God not “good”?

Dude has asked me to define what I mean by good so I will, good is that which conforms to the will of God. We are saved by accepting the work done for us on our behalf by Jesus Christ and that conforms to the will of God, We then are commissioned to live lives which reflect this change and that is the will of God. So by my understanding, salvation and sanctification are both good works required by God in order to be saved and prove salvation as sure and true.

So by requiring faith and works God is only requiring that we be conformed to His will, which as Creator and King of the universe He is perfectly entitled to do.
 
In your last post on the other thread Dude, you said, “What if every ACTION that I do could be called “good Christian action” and yet I am utterly convinced there is no such thing as a god. Do I get into heaven? Realize that there is no ACTION one can do that is necessarily predicated on any certain belief.”

If your actions could be called good Christian actions, then necessarily, action one would be faith. Since it is the will of God that we be conformed to His own Image and it is not possible to do this outside of faith. So any work of charity, mercy, kindness, etc. which is not done for His glory is done for our own glory on some level. We are selfish creatures by our own designs and we are not ever going to do anything truly selfless apart from the intervening grace of God.

One may say, “well surely non-christians can do good works and be selfless,” and I have no doubt about that whatsoever. However, that does not preclude that good works were done through a person by God who is not a believer. The Bible is full of examples where pagans were used by God to fulfill His will in spite of the fact that they were Pagans. But, if the Sovereign of Creation chooses to use us to fulfill His will, i.e. the Crucifixion, that does not mean that we necessarily get an attaboy from God for those actions.

The only way we may ever please God is to first acknowledge that He is who He is and we are who we are and until we have that straight, nothing we do will ever be “good” in a true and lasting sense.

Now, your definition of good would lead me to believe that you are saying that what is good for me is good, but since you earlier qualified that I should not harm the innocent, or at least that I am somehow obligated to seek the greater good if I must harm the innocent, then you would also seem to be saying that there is good beyond myself and my own desires. This would seem to me to be a contradiction. I think you are saying, “What is good for me is good but it should also be good for others.”, would you please explain because I do not understand?
 
bogeydogg said:
Dude has asked me to define what I mean by good so I will, good is that which conforms to the will of God.
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The FLDS conform to the will of God.

The KKK conform to the will of God.

The taliban conform to the will of God.

Cheers 🙂
 
bogeydogg said:
In another thread, on which I got way off track sorry about that, that1dude posed the dilemma that a God who requires faith for salvation is not good and a God who requires good actions for salvation is not good.

My question is, what is the “good” by which requiring it makes God not “good”?

Dude has asked me to define what I mean by good so I will, good is that which conforms to the will of God. We are saved by accepting the work done for us on our behalf by Jesus Christ and that conforms to the will of God, We then are commissioned to live lives which reflect this change and that is the will of God. So by my understanding, salvation and sanctification are both good works required by God in order to be saved and prove salvation as sure and true.

So by requiring faith and works God is only requiring that we be conformed to His will, which as Creator and King of the universe He is perfectly entitled to do.
Click to expand...
By speaking only of God’s will and not God’s nature, you appear to be falling into “Divine Command Ethics,” which I regard in my more polemical moments as a form of demon-worship.

God’s nature is logically prior to His will. Deny that, and you have radically distorted your concept of God.

Edwin
 
Jesus was asked that question as a trick question by the pc clergy of the day…he then held up a coin…one side with the emperors image…He said.“render to him that is his!”…pay taxes,be a good citizen,put your trash out in proper style etc) then He flipped over the coin…looked up to Heaven.and “render to God what is Gods!”…that is what did Jesus in…respect your government but only worship God…at the Nurenburg town hall there was a replica over the door of the Ten Commandments…this kinda says it all…what is ‘good’ is what is termed ‘square’ or ‘repressive’ by the ruling class in America…Jesus warned us that this ‘earth is not of His kingdom’ thats for sure…so if you love and are faithful to your wife and family…watch out…if you are honest in paying your taxes and all bills…beware…if you are against tyranny of all kinds not just the cosmetic poster child type…lock your doors…if you are for banning child porn and drugs but not prayer and values in tax payer schools…look both ways before you cross the street!!! Good is the opposite of all PC in what was once a great nation…the US of A…hoping for Joe Di to come back and play one more game in the stadium…
 
bogeydogg said:
In another thread, on which I got way off track sorry about that, that1dude posed the dilemma that a God who requires faith for salvation is not good and a God who requires good actions for salvation is not good.

My question is, what is the “good” by which requiring it makes God not “good”?

Dude has asked me to define what I mean by good so I will, good is that which conforms to the will of God. We are saved by accepting the work done for us on our behalf by Jesus Christ and that conforms to the will of God, We then are commissioned to live lives which reflect this change and that is the will of God. So by my understanding, salvation and sanctification are both good works required by God in order to be saved and prove salvation as sure and true.

So by requiring faith and works God is only requiring that we be conformed to His will, which as Creator and King of the universe He is perfectly entitled to do.
Click to expand...
I think he was saying that it’s not just for God to require us to believe and do good works in order to be saved. It points to a good question: Why is this Gods will? Why is it so important that we believe? Belief doesn’t seem to come all that naturally. I think it can be said that Adams’ sin was the first act of unbelief because he believed the lie of the serpent rather than the truth from God. By this act he rejected the authority of God and if God has no authority for man, He’s not the God of man for all practical purposes. God gave man the freedom to commit this wrong but the wrong committed was nonetheless never meant to be and it created disorder in the universe. Unbelief is an unjust state that is unnatural for man and causes him harm. Man is one of the few beings in this universe who can elect to abide by or rebel against right order. As a result of original sin, he finds himself born in a disordered state, cut off from and not believing in God his creator and unable to find order, harmony, happiness. As for good works, a commandment to do these is really a commandment to love. It’s strange that we would need to be commanded to love but this also points to the disorder that resulted from the sin of unbelief. Lack of faith in God means lack of love for Him-because it means we aren’t recognizing His holiness and majesty-and authority. Lack of love for God is the original disorder- and lack of love for others follows from it. Thus the commandment to love God and love your neighbor is said to be just. And this implies faith and works, among other things.
 
Contarini said:
By speaking only of God’s will and not God’s nature, you appear to be falling into “Divine Command Ethics,” which I regard in my more polemical moments as a form of demon-worship.

God’s nature is logically prior to His will. Deny that, and you have radically distorted your concept of God.

Edwin
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Yes, but no one can say that God would never command us to behave in a way which is contrary to His nature. We are told to be merciful, and God is merciful. We are told to be charitable (loving) to one another, and God is charitable to us. We are told to be just and love justice, and God is just, We are told to resist and hate evil, and God hates evil. We are told to be humble, and God resists the proud.

Obeying God’s commands is synonymous to being conformed to His image, and in His image we are also conformed to His attributes.
 
Dameedna said:
The FLDS conform to the will of God.

The KKK conform to the will of God.

The taliban conform to the will of God.

Cheers 🙂
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I would point out that I went on to include good works, and I think I will stand quite comfortable in saying that the KKK and Taliban are not rich in good works toward their fellow men.

As far as the LDS Church goes, I am really only arguing from the perspective of Orthodox Catholic teaching which does allow for those who are not catholic to be Christian but does also exclude every possible derivation of Protestant or heretical teaching from being taken with absolute seriousness on their points of departure from Catholic teaching. For this reason if you are desirous to begin a comparative thread on the various teachings of Christian and pseudo-Christian groups by all means do, but for the purpose of clarity and not chasing rabbits I would like to refrain from that here.
 
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