J
John_Russell_Jr
Guest
In the old days there were many
different words for the different types of love. Many people get
confused by this word as it is used to describe several types of love
in english now. I’m not saying your confused about it though. It’s
perhaps the most misunderstood word in the english language now.
In the original tongue in the bible you will find the authors used
different words for the different types of love but our modern english
translation just says “love”.
I’m not being picky and don’t take me as too complicated. The way I
see it is the subjects of God and religion are so vast , deal with the
infinite and are beyond our comprehension that we might sound like
we’re complicating things when we talk like I am now. People who learn
a great deal about religious truths and pray and reflect on them
whilst struggling to lead a good life gradually become less and less
complicated. But they can be very complicated whilst they know very
little like me. Catholics often get told they complicate religion too
much for the reasons I explain and it’s not our fault- it’s God who is
so hard to understand and fathom. We stumble trying to explain the
infinite with our finite minds.
About “love” here is a good example of what I mean-
Jesus spoke Aramaic but the bible was translated into Greek. In the
5th century the catholic St Jerome translated the bible into Latin. We
all benefit from his translation because just about all early writings
are long gone but we still have St Jeromes translation and we know he
had the early texts written by the first christians and the church
sanctioned his translation.
Of love in Greek this is interesting-
We say we love our mothers and we love ice cream. The word covers such
a wide range of human affections that it is helpful to look at Greek,
which has four terms:
Storge is affectionate love, such as the need-love of a child for a parent.
Philia is the love felt for friends.
Eros is romantic or sexual love, the love that desires to possess the beloved.
Agape is self-sacrificing love, the love that desires the good of the beloved.
About the language of the New Testament this is interesting-
From www.catholc.com about biblical languages etc- A debate catholic
vs, missionary-
Finally the missionary got to Matthew 16:18: "You are Peter, and on
this rock I will build my Church."
"Hold it right there!" I said. "I know that verse. That’s where Jesus
appointed Simon the earthly head of the Church. That’s where he
appointed him the first pope." I paused and smiled broadly, knowing
what the missionary would say in response.
I knew he usually didn’t get any defense of the Catholic position at
all as he went door to door, but sometimes a Catholic would speak up
as I had. He had a reply, and I knew what it would be, and I was ready
for it.
"I understand your thinking," he said, "but you Catholics
misunderstand this verse because you don’t know any Greek. That’s the
trouble with your Church and with your scholars. You people don’t know
the language in which the New Testament was written. To understand
Matthew 16:18, we have to get behind the English to the Greek."
"Is that so?" I said, leading him on. I pretended to be ignorant of
the trap being laid for me.
"Yes," he said. "In Greek, the word for rock is petra, which means a
large, massive stone. The word used for Simon’s new name is different;
it’s Petros, which means a little stone, a pebble."
In reality, what the missionary was telling me at this point was
false. As Greek scholars—even non-Catholic ones—admit, the words
petros and petra were synonyms in first century Greek. They meant
"small stone" and “large rock” in some ancient Greek poetry, centuries
before the time of Christ, but that distinction had disappeared from
the language by the time Matthew’s Gospel was rendered in Greek. The
difference in meaning can only be found in Attic Greek, but the New
Testament was written in Koine Greek—an entirely different dialect. In
Koine Greek, both petros and petra simply meant “rock.” If Jesus had
wanted to call Simon a small stone, the Greek lithos would have been
used. The missionary’s argument didn’t work and showed a faulty
knowledge of Greek. (For an Evangelical Protestant Greek scholar’s
admission of this, see D. A. Carson, The Expositor’s Bible Commentary
[Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1984], Frank E. Gaebelein, ed., 8:368).
"You Catholics," the missionary continued, "because you don’t know
Greek, imagine that Jesus was equating Simon and the rock. Actually,
of course, it was just the opposite. He was contrasting them. On the
one side, the rock on which the Church would be built, Jesus himself;
on the other, this mere pebble. Jesus was really saying that he
himself would be the foundation, and he was emphasizing that Simon
wasn’t remotely qualified to be it."
"Case closed," he thought.
different words for the different types of love. Many people get
confused by this word as it is used to describe several types of love
in english now. I’m not saying your confused about it though. It’s
perhaps the most misunderstood word in the english language now.
In the original tongue in the bible you will find the authors used
different words for the different types of love but our modern english
translation just says “love”.
I’m not being picky and don’t take me as too complicated. The way I
see it is the subjects of God and religion are so vast , deal with the
infinite and are beyond our comprehension that we might sound like
we’re complicating things when we talk like I am now. People who learn
a great deal about religious truths and pray and reflect on them
whilst struggling to lead a good life gradually become less and less
complicated. But they can be very complicated whilst they know very
little like me. Catholics often get told they complicate religion too
much for the reasons I explain and it’s not our fault- it’s God who is
so hard to understand and fathom. We stumble trying to explain the
infinite with our finite minds.
About “love” here is a good example of what I mean-
Jesus spoke Aramaic but the bible was translated into Greek. In the
5th century the catholic St Jerome translated the bible into Latin. We
all benefit from his translation because just about all early writings
are long gone but we still have St Jeromes translation and we know he
had the early texts written by the first christians and the church
sanctioned his translation.
Of love in Greek this is interesting-
We say we love our mothers and we love ice cream. The word covers such
a wide range of human affections that it is helpful to look at Greek,
which has four terms:
Storge is affectionate love, such as the need-love of a child for a parent.
Philia is the love felt for friends.
Eros is romantic or sexual love, the love that desires to possess the beloved.
Agape is self-sacrificing love, the love that desires the good of the beloved.
About the language of the New Testament this is interesting-
From www.catholc.com about biblical languages etc- A debate catholic
vs, missionary-
Finally the missionary got to Matthew 16:18: "You are Peter, and on
this rock I will build my Church."
"Hold it right there!" I said. "I know that verse. That’s where Jesus
appointed Simon the earthly head of the Church. That’s where he
appointed him the first pope." I paused and smiled broadly, knowing
what the missionary would say in response.
I knew he usually didn’t get any defense of the Catholic position at
all as he went door to door, but sometimes a Catholic would speak up
as I had. He had a reply, and I knew what it would be, and I was ready
for it.
"I understand your thinking," he said, "but you Catholics
misunderstand this verse because you don’t know any Greek. That’s the
trouble with your Church and with your scholars. You people don’t know
the language in which the New Testament was written. To understand
Matthew 16:18, we have to get behind the English to the Greek."
"Is that so?" I said, leading him on. I pretended to be ignorant of
the trap being laid for me.
"Yes," he said. "In Greek, the word for rock is petra, which means a
large, massive stone. The word used for Simon’s new name is different;
it’s Petros, which means a little stone, a pebble."
In reality, what the missionary was telling me at this point was
false. As Greek scholars—even non-Catholic ones—admit, the words
petros and petra were synonyms in first century Greek. They meant
"small stone" and “large rock” in some ancient Greek poetry, centuries
before the time of Christ, but that distinction had disappeared from
the language by the time Matthew’s Gospel was rendered in Greek. The
difference in meaning can only be found in Attic Greek, but the New
Testament was written in Koine Greek—an entirely different dialect. In
Koine Greek, both petros and petra simply meant “rock.” If Jesus had
wanted to call Simon a small stone, the Greek lithos would have been
used. The missionary’s argument didn’t work and showed a faulty
knowledge of Greek. (For an Evangelical Protestant Greek scholar’s
admission of this, see D. A. Carson, The Expositor’s Bible Commentary
[Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1984], Frank E. Gaebelein, ed., 8:368).
"You Catholics," the missionary continued, "because you don’t know
Greek, imagine that Jesus was equating Simon and the rock. Actually,
of course, it was just the opposite. He was contrasting them. On the
one side, the rock on which the Church would be built, Jesus himself;
on the other, this mere pebble. Jesus was really saying that he
himself would be the foundation, and he was emphasizing that Simon
wasn’t remotely qualified to be it."
"Case closed," he thought.
I have never so clearly seen the authority of Peter explained by the Scripture presented before. I hope to copy and save it in case I ever need to explain the Scriptural authority of the Bishop of Rome, the Pope, to others. As an addendum, it is very interesting that it is particularly in the letters of Peter, particularly 1 Peter 5, that we see the commands to submit to the presybters and clothe onself with humility. So if Peter is the authority and he uses this authority in his letters to command us to submit to the presybters, we know this command is as if Christ personally gave it to us. 