What is normal and healthy affection between a granddaughter and her grandfather?

[Cricket2]

Is your husband going to defend his daughter or his father. He better decide and let you know. She comes first. All the children come first.

Get verbal and confront who you have too, whenever. I could care less if I was in public, at a resturaunt or in Church…any one and I mean anyone trying the nonsense you have described here would get a loud hear full. And I mean loud, to the point and with no questions left to ask.

 

[mommamaree]

As usual EasterJoy, you give sane and sage advice. Thank you.

I feel angry at this point because this is a “game-changer”. Everything must necessarily change. I thought I could trust my in-laws. But soon after the birth of my third, my step-FIL demonstrated he couldn’t be trusted (and my MIL, whom I mostly trust with the safety of my kids, but not with honesty, because I always catch her in “little” less, must always be present if I am not present, in order to keep them safe), and now my FIL has broken my trust. A breech in trust like this can’t be earned back, due to what is at stake. I cannot imagine any scenario where we could ever let my kids stay at my FIL’s house for overnights or any other kind of alone time.
I know my SIL has a painful and difficult relationship with her father, so naturally, my husband and I, upon reflection, wonder if there is any connection. But that is mere speculation.
We cannot ask my MIL if she knows of any explanation or other reason for either more scrutiny or less worry. She has such resentment against him and is already known for speaking against him and telling me lies. And if she tells her daughter that we asked any questions, it will be all over for us. The whole family will likely know and, probably rightly, blame us for causing drama.
So, we are worried now about how to proceed. We have concerns for our niece. Any advice on this aspect of our struggle would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you everyone. I honestly don’t know what I would have done managing my family crises in the past year or so without some of you kind-hearted people here at CAF. After so many betrayals, I don’t know who to trust with anything, and I have needed a place to discuss how to handle these difficult issues with Christian charity. Thank you.

 

[mommamaree]

Is your husband going to defend his daughter or his father. He better decide and let you know. She comes first. All the children come first.

Get verbal and confront who you have too, whenever. I could care less if I was in public, at a resturaunt or in Church…any one and I mean anyone trying the nonsense you have described here would get a loud hear full. And I mean loud, to the point and with no questions left to ask.

Cricket,
I wonder if you have read all my posts here, because I said last night that my husband and I are now on the same page, and he has all the information now.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

No, I have not expected her to be able to control her grandfather’s behavior. I didn’t realize that would be implied when I mentioned my difficulties with that. The issues I am having with my kids involve barging into bathrooms while another sibling or parent is trying to do their business, playing water splashing games with each other during bathrooms, not getting dressed in their closet or room privately, walking around the house totally nude, etc. I have corrected and instructed every time and it still happens. I am exasperated a bit, but not mad with any of them. I am just going to continue teaching and I am sure at some point, it will get through. I bet the second my oldest starts puberty, there will be a very different tone for them regarding modesty.
Regarding the upper thigh stroking, that is precisely why I got my husband to step in. I told him today that I think his father might be trying to see exactly how far he can go in front of me, in order to normalize the behavior for my daughter, so he can do things to her privately. He is no longer exasperated with me. He is connecting the dots, too. He feels angry and betrayed. We are not sure of how big this is going to blow up, but he knows something must be said and that new ground rules are going to be laid down if the grandfather wants contact. I cannot believe the sheer amount of betrayals we have experienced at the hands of family members. We literally can trust NO ONE to tell us the truth or to respect basic boundaries. Not siblings, not parents, on either side of our families. Not godparents, either.

I understand, thank you for explaining. I’ll be praying for your family.

 

[beehumble]

He winced as I described the behavior to him. He has never witnessed it, as my FIL has never done it in his presence. But to me it seems to be a blatant challenge to me as her mother about what I will allow or not. I have to admit I am intimidated and also afraid of being wrong. My instincts were to grab her off of his lap and tell him not to ever touch my children that way again. But I left the room to try to calm down and avoid either screaming or vomiting, because my husband was ignoring the issue and tells me I have no reason to NOT trust his father. I feel like his father’s behavior gives me EVERY reason to NOT trust him!

Trust your instincts on this. Do not leave the room, stay right there staring at him and let him know you are staring at him - yes, make him feel uncomfortable, make him aware that you are aware of what he is up to. And do not leave her alone with him, or with both of them if his spouse is in the picture - she too will trust him like his son does (or hopefully *did *- in the past but not now?) and she will leave her alone with him. Make him uncomfortable - better to have your relationship with grandpa end *before *he harms her, then after. Much abuse happens from once-trusted relatives.

Pray.

God bless you.

 

[Country_Gal]

Hi, I read the first 2 or 3 pages. Let me tell you, this type of behavior is inappropriate, and can escalate as your daughter matures.

With my, my father always commented on my cute butt, when I was little. He was always pinching my butt. My parents divorced when I was 7, my father became more sexualized, marrying a young trophy wife. He got caught up in the sexual revolution

When I matured, it was footsie on the couch, lewd jokes, lots of comments about my butt, pinches, sexual talk. I felt so uncomfortable, but had no one to turn to or defend me.

When I was 17 he outright propositioned me. I declined.

He continued to skirt the edges throughout my early adult years. I entered into a bad marriage, I was afraid of my own femininity. My father continued to make inappropriate remarks, asking me about orgasms, sexual habits, etc. He would semi-grope me in front of people when I didn’t want to make a scene. He indicated that he wondered if people thought we were a couple. I was adopted, so don’t look like his daughter.

Finally, when I was about mid 30s I told him that I didn’t want him to hug me in public or tell me about his sex life. He eventually disinherited me. We don’t talk much now, I was damaged by him.

 

[mommamaree]

Thank you for opening up to me with your story. I am so sorry for what happened to you.

My husband mentioned today that the behavior I have seen and described to him sounds like foreplay. I was shocked at that label, but I knew he was right and I told him so.

 

[coopnann]

I am so sorry for all of this. It is confusing for all of you.

All of your feelings are founded, and listen to your gut. Glad your husband and you are in agreement now. That will make it better. Now you and your husband have to come with a game plan to address it, and not wait for the next time, as that might be a time when you are not there when it happens.

You and your husband are obligated to protect your daughter, you are not obligated to protect your FIL’s embarrassment, hurt feelings, or anything else.

People who try sexual advances with children do so little by little, to see what reaction they will get, if the children tell, and now, as you or someone else said, to see what the reaction of the adults is.
You mentioned your daughter seems fine with it. I wonder if that is her way of playing it off, trying to make it seem okay with herself; she may be unsure of it and needs to know what he does is not ok and that you will be addressing it.

For sure he cannot be with her alone anywhere, but the things he has done now in front of you, he really does not need to be around her at all.

 

[Country_Gal]

Thank you for opening up to me with your story. I am so sorry for what happened to you.

My husband mentioned today that the behavior I have seen and described to him sounds like foreplay. I was shocked at that label, but I knew he was right and I told him so.

Your husband is right. Your daughter is being gradually groomed and wooed.

There’s one thing, having affection and love from male relative. It’a another thing being gradually objectified.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

As someone who was sexually abused as a child, I can tell you this is indeed alarming behavior. I’m very sensitive about the subject, and my thinking is that if you think he’s crossing boundaries (And your husband now agrees with you) than he is. The most likely scenario is, sadly, that he is intentionally doing this.

However, I really do like to think the best of people. There is a chance he doesn’t realize he is doing it or doesn’t realize it is wrong. I would recommend confronting him about it and telling him it needs to stop, and that he can’t be with your daughter (Or any other of your children) in private anymore. This way, if it is unintentional and he didn’t mean anything by it, he’ll realize it now and stop, and if it was intentional, he’ll realize the jig is up.

Some have suggested just your husband confronting him, but I know if it was my dad, I would definitely need moral support with me. If you cannot say anything without bursting into a rage, simply stay quiet and support your husband simply by your presence. The natural reaction is to yell at him, but in the case that he doesn’t realize he’s doing it, that really doesn’t help the situation at all, so it’s best to stay civil. This is incredibly difficult when something this personal and awful happens, but it can be done – don’t convince yourself otherwise.

 

[EasterJoy]

As usual EasterJoy, you give sane and sage advice. Thank you.

I feel angry at this point because this is a “game-changer”. Everything must necessarily change. I thought I could trust my in-laws. But soon after the birth of my third, my step-FIL demonstrated he couldn’t be trusted (and my MIL, whom I mostly trust with the safety of my kids, but not with honesty, because I always catch her in “little” less, must always be present if I am not present, in order to keep them safe), and now my FIL has broken my trust. A breech in trust like this can’t be earned back, due to what is at stake. I cannot imagine any scenario where we could ever let my kids stay at my FIL’s house for overnights or any other kind of alone time.
I know my SIL has a painful and difficult relationship with her father, so naturally, my husband and I, upon reflection, wonder if there is any connection. But that is mere speculation.
We cannot ask my MIL if she knows of any explanation or other reason for either more scrutiny or less worry. She has such resentment against him and is already known for speaking against him and telling me lies. And if she tells her daughter that we asked any questions, it will be all over for us. The whole family will likely know and, probably rightly, blame us for causing drama.
So, we are worried now about how to proceed. We have concerns for our niece. Any advice on this aspect of our struggle would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you everyone. I honestly don’t know what I would have done managing my family crises in the past year or so without some of you kind-hearted people here at CAF. After so many betrayals, I don’t know who to trust with anything, and I have needed a place to discuss how to handle these difficult issues with Christian charity. Thank you.

If you are worried you will be accused of going on a witchhunt, make this about boundaries you learned through your parish that children must be taught to keep them safe from predators “out there”. It is also true, after all, that innocent adults are having to relearn how they act around young people, so that grooming will set off “red flags” with them. No letting your girls alone with any male relatives other than their father. Whatever it takes.

 

[Xantippe]

EasterJoy said:

“If you are worried you will be accused of going on a witchhunt, make this about boundaries you learned through your parish that children must be taught to keep them safe from predators “out there”.”

Right.

 

[Country_Gal]

Thank you for opening up to me with your story. I am so sorry for what happened to you.

My husband mentioned today that the behavior I have seen and described to him sounds like foreplay. I was shocked at that label, but I knew he was right and I told him so.

One point of my personal story is that, a man doesn’t have to blatantly molest a girl to cause psychological and emotional damage.

 

[Zelie_Louis]

If you have any concern whatsoever about the safety of your children in regard to inappropriate touching, please consult a health professional at once. This is not a subject to be handled online.