What is Oral Tradition

[SolaScriptura]

Catholics love to attack sola Scriptura, but when one starts to critique their rule of faith you find many more problems, many inconsistencies with the early church, and no firm basis or agreement to what it really means. For example they often switch back and forth in their definition of Oral Tradition to suit their current argument. So I have a question, what is this infallilble Oral Tradition?

1. 
   *]Is it a second body of teaching by the Apostles that was not put down in writing by passed down orally?
   
   *]Is it an intepretational guide to the Scriptures that were passed down from the Apostles?
   
   *]Is it the Holy Spirit leading the church in history to arrive at truths that may not have been passed down from the Apostles?
   
   *]Or is it something else.

 

[Scottgun]

I. THE APOSTOLIC TRADITION

75 "Christ the Lord, in whom the entire Revelation of the most high God is summed up, commanded the apostles to preach the Gospel, which had been promised beforehand by the prophets, and which he fulfilled in his own person and promulgated with his own lips. In preaching the Gospel, they were to communicate the gifts of God to all men. This Gospel was to be the source of all saving truth and moral discipline."32

In the apostolic preaching. . .

76 In keeping with the Lord’s command, the Gospel was handed on in two ways:

• orally “by the apostles who handed on, by the spoken word of their preaching, by the example they gave, by the institutions they established, what they themselves had received - whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or whether they had learned it at the prompting of the Holy Spirit”;33

• in writing “by those apostles and other men associated with the apostles who, under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit, committed the message of salvation to writing”.34

. . . continued in apostolic succession

77 "In order that the full and living Gospel might always be preserved in the Church the apostles left bishops as their successors. They gave them their own position of teaching authority."35 Indeed, "the apostolic preaching, which is expressed in a special way in the inspired books, was to be preserved in a continuous line of succession until the end of time."36

78 This living transmission, accomplished in the Holy Spirit, is called Tradition, since it is distinct from Sacred Scripture, though closely connected to it. Through Tradition, "the Church, in her doctrine, life and worship, perpetuates and transmits to every generation all that she herself is, all that she believes."37 "The sayings of the holy Fathers are a witness to the life-giving presence of this Tradition, showing how its riches are poured out in the practice and life of the Church, in her belief and her prayer."38

79 The Father’s self-communication made through his Word in the Holy Spirit, remains present and active in the Church: "God, who spoke in the past, continues to converse with the Spouse of his beloved Son. And the Holy Spirit, through whom the living voice of the Gospel rings out in the Church - and through her in the world - leads believers to the full truth, and makes the Word of Christ dwell in them in all its richness."39

 

[SolaScriptura]

Scottgun,

Could you succinctly answer the question? I know you don’t trust my private interpretation of your official teaching. So just tell me in a sentence what the information you quoted means in reference to the question I asked. Thanks.

 

[Lampo]

scripturecatholic.com/oral_tradition.html

 

[SolaScriptura]

scripturecatholic.com/oral_tradition.html

Can you guys answer a simple question with a simple answer? I don’t need pages of quotes from your Catechism or links to pages of explanation about Oral Tradition from an apologetic website. I just want a one sentence answer that tells me exactly what Oral Tradition is.

 

[Scottgun]

Scottgun,

Could you succinctly answer the question? I know you don’t trust my private interpretation of your official teaching. So just tell me in a sentence what the information you quoted means in reference to the question I asked. Thanks.

The succinct answer I suppose is attested to by St. Paul in Thessalonians 2 Thes 2:14 to keep the traditions that they had been taught either orally or in writing:

Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by epistle.

Bottom line: There is no Scripture that tells us that the Word of God is strictly the written word.

At this point I think there is plenty to interact with, so if can we move out of didactic mode…

Scott

 

[estesbob]

Can you guys answer a simple question with a simple answer? I don’t need pages of quotes from your Catechism or links to pages of explanation about Oral Tradition from an apologetic website. I just want a one sentence answer that tells me exactly what Oral Tradition is.

You have been given reams of information on what Oral Tradition is. The idea that such an important doctrine can be distilled into one sentence is specious. Now just what is it in the information provided you that you dispute?

 

[Lampo]

Can you guys answer a simple question with a simple answer? I don’t need pages of quotes from your Catechism or links to pages of explanation about Oral Tradition from an apologetic website. I just want a one sentence answer that tells me exactly what Oral Tradition is.

I’m not sure a one-sentence definition would be sufficient. Here’s a stab: Oral tradition is the word of God transferred orally by the bishops of the Church, with the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit.

 

[SolaScriptura]

The succinct answer I suppose is attested to by St. Paul in Thessalonians 2 Thes 2:14 to keep the traditions that they had been taught either orally or in writing:

OK, but does this mean this Tradition is different in content from the Scripture or of the same content just taught in two different ways?

Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by epistle.

OK, but does this mean this Tradition is different in content from the Scripture or of the same content just taught in two different ways?

Bottom line: There is no Scripture that tells us that the Word of God is strictly the written word.

At this point I think there is plenty to interact with, so if can we move out of didactic mode…

Scott

This discussion is not about sola Scriptura, I’m trying to understand what you mean by Oral Tradition.

 

[reneeville]

…yet you want his private interpretation? This is an odd post.
God’s peace be with you~

Scottgun,

Could you succinctly answer the question? I know you don’t trust my private interpretation of your official teaching. So just tell me in a sentence what the information you quoted means in reference to the question I asked. Thanks.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

I disagree with the first principle of Sola Scriptura i.e. the assertion that the Bible as God’s written word is self-authenticating, clear (perspicuous) to the rational reader. The Catholic Church teaches the Bible must be interpreted by church teaching, by considering the bible in the context of Sacred Tradition.

I believe that Sola Scriptura is the reason that there are thousands of Protestant denominations. Scripture is interpreted in dramatic different ways by each denomination. Even within a single denomination scripture is interpreted differently from church to church. Obviously they all cannot be right so how do supporters of Sola Scriptura explain this?

Iowa Mike

 

[SolaScriptura]

…yet you want his private interpretation? This is an odd post.
God’s peace be with you~

So how do you figure out what the text he quoted means? Do you get it by osmosis? Please explain?

 

[SolaScriptura]

I disagree with the first principle of Sola Scriptura i.e. the assertion that the Bible as God’s written word is self-authenticating, clear (perspicuous) to the rational reader. The Catholic Church teaches the Bible must be interpreted by church teaching, by considering the bible in the context of Sacred Tradition.

I believe that Sola Scriptura is the reason that there are thousands of Protestant denominations. Scripture is interpreted in dramatic different ways by each denomination. Even within a single denomination scripture is interpreted differently from church to church. Obviously they all cannot be right so how do supporters of Sola Scriptura explain this?

Iowa Mike

Hi Mike,

This is not about sola Scriptura. I’m trying to understand what you all mean by Oral Tradition. Got an answer for the question I asked?

 

[Wildgraywolf]

Well, before there were New Testament books the teaching was done orally; this is the beginning of the oral tradition. Eventually things began to be written down and after nearly 400 years there was a great body of writings circulating. The Church decided on a canon which includes first hand teaching of the apostles - the New Testament. This is why the New Testament ends with the Book of Revelation written in about 80 AD with the death of St. John. Anyway, the teaching didn’t stop in 80 AD it continues to this day. As more and more of the oral teaching was written down they became what are referred to today as Sacred Tradition.

Sola Scriptura amounts to the student disposing of the teacher and relying on his own interpretation of the text book alone. Can you imagine the chaos? It’d be like having hundreds or thousands of denominations!

 

[SolaScriptura]

I’m not sure a one-sentence definition would be sufficient. Here’s a stab: Oral tradition is the word of God transferred orally by the bishops of the Church, with the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit.

Thanks Lampo. Is this word of God the same content as the Scripture or is it something in addition to the Scripture?

 

[reneeville]

I don’t know why you’d suggest osmosis; the following (the first reply to your OP) is really quite simple to understand. If there is any one part of it you don’t understand or dispute, bring that point to attention.
God’s peace be with you~
I. THE APOSTOLIC TRADITION

75 "Christ the Lord, in whom the entire Revelation of the most high God is summed up, commanded the apostles to preach the Gospel, which had been promised beforehand by the prophets, and which he fulfilled in his own person and promulgated with his own lips. In preaching the Gospel, they were to communicate the gifts of God to all men. This Gospel was to be the source of all saving truth and moral discipline."32

In the apostolic preaching. . .

76 In keeping with the Lord’s command, the Gospel was handed on in two ways:

• orally “by the apostles who handed on, by the spoken word of their preaching, by the example they gave, by the institutions they established, what they themselves had received - whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or whether they had learned it at the prompting of the Holy Spirit”;33
• in writing “by those apostles and other men associated with the apostles who, under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit, committed the message of salvation to writing”.34

. . . continued in apostolic succession

77 "In order that the full and living Gospel might always be preserved in the Church the apostles left bishops as their successors. They gave them their own position of teaching authority."35 Indeed, "the apostolic preaching, which is expressed in a special way in the inspired books, was to be preserved in a continuous line of succession until the end of time."36

78 This living transmission, accomplished in the Holy Spirit, is called Tradition, since it is distinct from Sacred Scripture, though closely connected to it. Through Tradition, "the Church, in her doctrine, life and worship, perpetuates and transmits to every generation all that she herself is, all that she believes."37 "The sayings of the holy Fathers are a witness to the life-giving presence of this Tradition, showing how its riches are poured out in the practice and life of the Church, in her belief and her prayer."38

79 The Father’s self-communication made through his Word in the Holy Spirit, remains present and active in the Church: "God, who spoke in the past, continues to converse with the Spouse of his beloved Son. And the Holy Spirit, through whom the living voice of the Gospel rings out in the Church - and through her in the world - leads believers to the full truth, and makes the Word of Christ dwell in them in all its richness."39

So how do you figure out what the text he quoted means? Do you get it by osmosis? Please explain?

 

[SolaScriptura]

See what I mean? You can’t even get a straightforward answer to a simple question that they always talk about. They always tell us we need Oral Tradition, but just asking what it is causes all this obfuscation. And oh yeah, attacks on sola Scriptura.

 

[SolaScriptura]

I don’t know why you’d suggest osmosis; the following (the first reply to your OP) is really quite simple to understand. If there is any one part of it you don’t understand or dispute, bring that point to attention.

So will you correct my private interpretation with your private interpretation? Do you not have the ability to state in one or two sentences what this means in reference to the question I asked?

 

[reneeville]

I’m sorry that you feel “attacked”. I’ve never seen any Catholic “attack” sola-scriptura… It simply cannot be defended.
God’s peace be with you~

See what I mean? You can’t even get a straightforward answer to a simple question that they always talk about. They always tell us we need Oral Tradition, but just asking what it is causes all this obfuscation. And oh yeah, attacks on sola Scriptura.

 

[Lampo]

Thanks Lampo. Is this word of God the same content as the Scripture or is it something in addition to the Scripture?

The word of God that is in the NT had to be transmitted orally before the NT was written. Mark 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to preach the Gospel to every creature. But Jesus did not want this preaching to stop after the apostles died, and yet the Bible was not compiled until four centuries later. The word of God was transferred orally.