What is Scrupulosity?

[Bookcat]

I was relying on psychiatric definitions which define it as a form of OCD I don’t write the definitions. And I know not everyone who has OCD has scruples, I NEVER said that.

(Yes I realize you did not say that everyone who has OCD experiences scruples…I was just filling out my point)

As I noted Scruples or Scrupulosity does not per se = OCD.

Some have yes thought this at times… but it does not.

A person who struggles with scruples may also suffer from OCD but it need not be the case.

But yes certainly those with OCD can struggle with scrupulosity.

 

[Bookcat]

I noted that link from the rules for the good of all readers…

 

[Bookcat]

Just trying to understand this more, and what I meant was that If what you said was true, then clearly any over-strictness is scrupulosity. But any over-strictness can be caused by misunderstandings and so some misunderstandings (not misunderstandings per se but ones that deal with convincing people to be over-strict) are the causes of scrupulosity.

Such would not be the case.

But yes misunderstandings can certainly play a part in at least some scruples.

I’m also not saying that all the causes of scrupulosity are misunderstandings. But nonetheless, it seems that if this is the case, then obedience wouldn’t be the cure of all scrupulosity but sometimes more reading and analysis would be. .

Yes it is not the case.

 

[fakename]

Such would not be the case.

But yes misunderstandings can certainly play a part in at least some scruples.

Yes it is not the case.

So wait, do you mean that obedience is not the cure for all scruples?

But that seems false, for the Catholic Encyclopedia does not mention it. Again, I should seriously consult the Summa.

 

[Bookcat]

So wait, do you mean that obedience is not the cure for all scruples?

But that seems false, for the Catholic Encyclopedia does not mention it. Again, I should seriously consult the Summa.

That was not what I was noting there but rather that scruples are not only caused by misinformation.

(indeed a kind of “Obedience” to a regular confessor is very key to confronting scruples)

 

[Bookcat]

Important in working to overcome scruples:

A regular confessor whom one can trust (indeed entrust yourself to for the time being!). He can give not only direction in general etc but note certain principles or confirm them for you that one can follow. Obedience …is important here…it is the age old remedy.

(of course one seeks a confessor who is faithful to the Church… if something is clearly wrong (manifestly sinful)…like he tells you to murder his secretary…or tells you to use contraception…of course do not do such…one needs to seek another etc)

Perhaps some studies in (orthodox) Catholic Theology such as what is in the Catechism (I say perhaps cause some need to not read etc for a while…but simply follow their confessor…depends on the scruples etc)

**Prayer **

Frequenting the Sacraments (within reason…confession every day…is prob. not a good idea unless one really falls into mortal sin…)

With the direction of ones confessor/spiritual director to: Contra scruplos agendum est, et fixo operis pede certandum (Act contrary to scruples and with a firm foot overcome them)

Overcoming ones scruples…ones fears with a “firm foot”. Learning to act against them under the guidance of your confessor. Dismiss them. Not argue with them. (ie. if ones confessor says…“unless you are certain you have committed a mortal sin…go to communion”…and you feel the fear and the doubts and the worries at the time of communion “but perhaps I committed one…?” you tell yourself “I am not certain of any mortal sins and my confessor told me to go” and you act against your fears and go to Communion!) etc

(in a way one needs be “scrupulous” about attending to ones scruples…)
**
Simplicity**

(it is important to note – that certain things that those with scruples may be directed etc by their confessor are not to be generalized necessarily to others with scruples …and often are not things that those without scruples would or could follow)

 

[fakename]

That was not what I was noting there but rather that scruples are not only caused by misinformation.

(indeed a kind of “Obedience” to a regular confessor is very key to confronting scruples)

How can that be, when obedience per se does not inform people?

 

[Bookcat]

How can that be, when obedience per se does not inform people?

As I noted there are various sources for scruples.

With some it may be simply a matter of removing the errors. Such are usually rather with brief transitory scruples and even a singular scruple.

Obedience over -all is very key for those struggling with scruples/ scrupulosity – for their rudder or compass is off on their boat (at least in this sense) and they need a guide to direct them in the midst of their scruples (even in the case of those who have a rather well formed conscience otherwise…be they professors of Theology or even Priests who direct others.) And even if it is a matter of dealing with simple error – they need to trust the regular confessor --and follow his direct and not their misunderstanding.

Scruples can vary in degrees and in subjects that they effect. But over-all obedience to a regular confessor is key.

 

[fakename]

As I noted there are various sources for scruples.

With some it may be simply a matter of removing the errors. Such are usually rather with brief transitory scruples and even a singular scruple.

Obedience over -all is very key for those struggling with scruples/ scrupulosity – for their rudder or compass is off on their boat (at least in this sense) and they need a guide to direct them in the midst of their scruples (even in the case of those who have a rather well formed conscience otherwise…be they professors of Theology or even Priests who direct others.) And even if it is a matter of dealing with simple error – they need to trust the regular confessor --and follow his direct and not their misunderstanding.

Scruples can vary in degrees and in subjects that they effect. But over-all obedience to a regular confessor is key.

But this obedience (for well-informed people) is not the per se cause of them overcoming their scruples. Instead it seems that for these people it is argumentation that helps them. And argumentation is expressly forbidden to people with scruples. Even w/o this info. though, obedience is supposed to be the cure for scruples even though again it is only the incidental cure of scruples, sort of like how breathing is the cure for scruples because one must breathe in order to live in order to be obedient.

 

[Bookcat]

But this obedience (for well-informed people) is not the per se cause of them overcoming their scruples. Instead it seems that for these people it is argumentation that helps them.And argumentation is expressly forbidden to people with scruples. Even w/o this info. though, obedience is supposed to be the cure for scruples even though again it is only the incidental cure of scruples, sort of like how breathing is the cure for scruples because one must breathe in order to live in order to be obedient.

There are some who will have some transient or singular scruple or scruples – and these may be quickly set in the right direction by their conscience being informed.

But usually when one discusses scruples and scrupulosity one is referring to those who while they too may have many misunderstandings – have need of a Regular Confessor and a kind of “obedience” to that confessor (in that which is not manifest sin). How that confessor will address each penitent will vary according to the penitent and their scruples and the background of the confessor. Will he forbid “argumentation” or “research”? --he may for that particular persons good. And a single penitent may need various approaches due to their variety of difficulties. Some things may require simple correction of ideas.

Scruples and Scrupulosity vary in kind and degree.

And yes the “obedience” even of those who are “well formed” (otherwise) can very well play a large part in their lessening or overcoming their scruples – those who are well formed and think they know what is the case in such and such can be actually rather entrenched in their scruple and less willing than another to accept that their scruple is a scruple etc --so especially there are obedience can again be key. And for even though they be even moral theologians themselves – it is by obedience that they overcome the nagging “what if’s” that can assault them.

St. Thomas More points out that even if those who are scrupulous are very knowledgeable themselves --they are to follow the practice among doctors who put themselves when ill or injured into the hands of another doctor …

 

[Student09]

But this obedience (for well-informed people) is not the per se cause of them overcoming their scruples. Instead it seems that for these people it is argumentation that helps them. And argumentation is expressly forbidden to people with scruples. Even w/o this info. though, obedience is supposed to be the cure for scruples even though again it is only the incidental cure of scruples, sort of like how breathing is the cure for scruples because one must breathe in order to live in order to be obedient.

Obedience is important for people who have serious scruples - as opposed to transient ones that can be cleared up with the correct information - because it’s a problem that causes one to doubt one’s own rational judgments continually. The scrupulous tend to go back and forth and back and forth interminably about whether something is a sin or isn’t, arguing with themselves and thus causing themselves a great deal of anxiety. That is why “argumentation” is not the answer, but only exacerbates the problem. One has to learn to trust the judgment of others since one’s own judgment is compromised.

 

[Bookcat]

Obedience is important for people who have serious scruples - as opposed to transient ones that can be cleared up with the correct information - because it’s a problem that causes one to doubt one’s own rational judgments continually. The scrupulous tend to go back and forth and back and forth interminably about whether something is a sin or isn’t, arguing with themselves and thus causing themselves a great deal of anxiety. That is why “argumentation” is not the answer, but only exacerbates the problem. One has to learn to trust the judgment of others since one’s own judgment is compromised.

(and less serious scruples too).

(and “argumentation” yes can be said to be often not the answer…for they can often go round and round in circles not able to come to that “practical judgement” themselves…but again scruples and degrees etc can differ).

 

[fakename]

(and less serious scruples too).

(and “argumentation” yes can be said to be often not the answer…for they can often go round and round in circles not able to come to that “practical judgement” themselves…but again scruples and degrees etc can differ).

Very interesting indeed.

Thanks for the answers.

 

[Bookcat]

Your welcome – anytime.

 

[fencersmother]

Is this an example of Scrupulosity? A person goes to confession, confessing all known sins (mortal and venial), let’s say on Saturday morning. Sunday morning, the person does not go to Holy Communion because the person is convinced s/he is “unworthy” to received the Body of Christ.There may have been temptations since the confession, but not necessarily any actual sins. Maybe this is not even a sin, but a perhaps a sickness in itself?

 

[Kathrin]

I have for a long time suffered from scrupulosity.
Characteristic feelings for me when I “scruple” are fear and doubt. Doubts of my own reasoning, mostly. Not doubt of my faith. I ahve a very strong faith and it gives me a lot of comfort. But the scrupulosity has a way of putting fear into my head… like, for example, I don’ think something is/was a sin, or I don’t think something is an obligation, but then I think: What if I am wrong? What if exactly this time I am wrong, so why not better ask anyway? maybe it is a sin if I don’t ask because how can I just assume I am right, maybe I just want to make it easy for myself, maybe I am just selfish… OR I have a temptation or some bad thought, maybe an angry thought, and it goes very fast and suddenly I am not sure anymore: Did I maybe consciously want it after all? Probably not, but what if somehow I WANTED the thought after all? Did I hold on to it a LIIIIITLE bit too long? And if I don’t remember, am I obliged to go back over and over it again in order to find out what I felt?
OR the thing that somebody mentioned about the communion fast. Ohhh how many things I have before felt might break the fast. Maybe something flew into my mouth while I was walking, maybe a raindrop might break it, maybe I licked my lips and hadn’t washed my mouth properly after dirnking coffee… even now while I amw riting this I am worried, what if those DO break the fast and by writing this udner the heading of scrupulosity I might make somebody else think it does not break it and then it is my fault! (so, just to make this clear, I am not making a statement about whather or not these things would break the fast, I am just making a statement of the kind of doubts as scrupulous person might have).
OR for a long time I felt guilty about things I enjoyed, and would find a lot of reasons why they might be sins, like something in me feels guilty about enjoying something, being worried I might enjoy it too much, questioning myself “may it be a false God”… just some examples.