You’re trying to extrapolate invalidly. No, it isn’t possible to find a ‘time’ – which only exists in the context of the spacetime of creation – prior to creation itself. However, saying “elements of creation do not exist outside of the context of creation” (which is, very naturally, true) does not make creation itself ‘ambiguous’. (That would be like saying “since STT didn’t exist prior to the point in time he was created, therefore his creation is ambiguous.”
)I am not trying to extrapolate invalidity. You are ignoring the point which is raised.You’re trying to extrapolate invalidly. No, it isn’t possible to find a ‘time’ – which only exists in the context of the spacetime of creation – prior to creation itself. However, saying “elements of creation do not exist outside of the context of creation” (which is, very naturally, true) does not make creation itself ‘ambiguous’. (That would be like saying “since STT didn’t exist prior to the point in time he was created, therefore his creation is ambiguous.”
How do you define the act of creation?Yes, I am… because it’s invalid.
In terms of which frame of reference? You seem to want to define it outside of its own frame of reference, which is, of course, illogical.
I assume you’re a believer in the closed universe (matter collapses back, big bang happens again ad infinitum)?
Not sure if I’m reading you right here. It is our belief as Catholics that God created from nothing. That is, there was nothing and then God created everything. So at some point before creation there was indeed nothing.
Nothing can begin in God’s frame of reference since it is timeless.
Your view has the problem which is addressed in OP.
Not really. This model has intrinsic problem, nothing can go to infinitum.
The universe didn’t begin but it has a beginning. Think of universe as a line which expand from zero to infinity. The line/creation has a beginning at zero for no specific reason and expand from there. Why we think that universe began (there was nothing then something).
I don’t understand how this is related to OP.This, also, assumes that time infinitely runs both ways into the past and future, even if it’s not observable. If time doesn’t exist prior to the big bang, please explain why. We can prove that 5 seconds ago existed. We can then use deductive reasoning to assume that 5 seconds ago to the power of infinity also existed as well, if there’s no additional information. If there is, again, please provide.
That is the problem that I am trying to make. If time is an element of creation then there must exist a point that it didn’t exist and then created but this is paradoxical since nothing exists before beginning therefore the act of creation is ambiguous.
Because there is no point before beginning.
That is explained in the next two sentences.
No, nothing exists before beginning so we cannot talk about anything before this point. That is what I mean by that there is no point before beginning.
No, there should be nothing before the beginning. God cannot be before or after something.
Because you are subjecting God to some sort of pseudo-time.