What IS the Catholic Church?

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The local priest said in a homily that we (the folks in the pews, etc.) are the Catholic Church. I thought the Catholic Church established by Christ was perfect and I know that I am not perfect. If we aren’t the Catholic Church then what exactly are we? I thought I knew what was going on till I heard this homily, now I am not sure.
 
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Holland:
The local priest said in a homily that we (the folks in the pews, etc.) are the Catholic Church. I thought the Catholic Church established by Christ was perfect and I know that I am not perfect. If we aren’t the Catholic Church then what exactly are we? I thought I knew what was going on till I heard this homily, now I am not sure.
So you thought that Peter, John, Matthew were perfect human beings? For this is where the perfect Church began.
 
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Holland:
The local priest said in a homily that we (the folks in the pews, etc.) are the Catholic Church. I thought the Catholic Church established by Christ was perfect and I know that I am not perfect. If we aren’t the Catholic Church then what exactly are we? I thought I knew what was going on till I heard this homily, now I am not sure.
He was referring to the fact that the Church is made up of the people of God who are perfected in Christ through the Holy Spirit. The Church is both human and divine, just as Jesus himself, it’s Head. In its humanity the Church is prone to sin and the frailties of human nature. But, in its divine nature it is perfect. We are awaiting the day when our humanity will be perfected. Then we will all be one with Christ as he is one in his two natures.
 
Thank-you Della. I guess I need to do a better job of listening on Sunday.
 
The Catholic Church is perfect in its doctrine, not in the behavior of its members who can range from saintly people to great sinners.

I am a member of the Catholic Church and far from perfect. I am part of a Church founded by Jesus Christ who was perfect and promised His Church would prevail no matter how crummy it’s members are.

God Bless
Scylla
 
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Holland:
Thank-you Della. I guess I need to do a better job of listening on Sunday.
Don’t be hard on yourself. 🙂 Priests giving homilies are not attempting to teach in the ordinary sense of the word, but to bring to life the Mass readings in order to stir our hearts and souls to love of God and neighbor. So, they aren’t going to tell us everything that can be said about a topic from the pulpit, such as the full nature of the Church. That is why we are responsible for learning about such things on our own or in a study group at our parish, etc. You asked a question here in order to learn more, which I think was quite wise and sensible of you. 👍
 
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Holland:
The local priest said in a homily that we (the folks in the pews, etc.) are the Catholic Church. I thought the Catholic Church established by Christ was perfect and I know that I am not perfect. If we aren’t the Catholic Church then what exactly are we? I thought I knew what was going on till I heard this homily, now I am not sure.
It has become quite an erroneous fad among some Catholics (including priests) to say “We are the Church”. Rather, Christ extended in us is the Church. Thus only what is done out of this union with Christ in us is the Church, such as teaching on faith or morals by the Magisterium, the sacramental life of the Church, the acts of virtue done in grace by the faithful, above all the lives of heroic sanctity of the Saints. All this is Christ in those who cooperate with Him. It takes divine faith that the Church is this Great Mystery of union between Christ and His Body to see this; a purely sociological approach misses this entirely as does an historical/scientific approach without faith.

It is this sociological approach which presumes that the poor version of Catholicism exemplified by many “American Catholics” is one to be foisted on the faithful universally as a purer presentation of Christ teaching in and through His Church, than that specifically given us through the ones entrusted by virtue of their Apostolic Office to preserve the Faith counter what those who have embraced the secular, and spiritually-illiterate culture desire who have no authority but their own presumption.

In Lumen Gentium 1:4 (The Dogmatic Constitution of the Church) we read: “Hence the universal Church is seen to be a people brought into unity from the unity of the Father, the Son and Spirit.” (Which, btw, was a quote from St. Cyprian of Carthage.)

Here, St. Cyprian, of course, and the 2nd Vatican Council, also, spoke of “A People” as one organic whole, not as merely the sum of the number of individuals. That is because the Church is One Mystical Person of Christ and Body in a supernatural union of Grace by the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit in three states: of blessedness in Heaven, of purification after death, of visible communion on earth. This means that Christ dwells in all and only in all that comes from Him (what He joins to Himself), but not in any of what contradicts Himself. This is why there can not be a facile identification of the Church with its visible members with all the actions of all or any of its members. All that comes from the sin of its visible members, of course, is not the Church, because it departs from union with Christ.

The opposite distortion is this “we are the Church” materially understood as one would of any other sociological grouping of humanity, which is a radical secularization of a Divine Mystery. This is why one can say that every member of the Visible Church sins, but the Church does not sin. Thus in the John Paul II’s “apology” we see clearly that he does not identify the Church herself with the sins of which her sons and daughters, however lofty their position, have committed.

continued. . .
 
Thus the Church is holy, not sinful as its members are (taken individually or materially, for there are many dead members of the Visible Church who are only materially, i.e., externally, joined to the Church and to Christ, who nevertheless have the opportunity of being revived, especially by the prayers and sacrifices of the alive members.)

It can be difficult for some to see this since they approach the issue superficially, materially, without understanding the depth of the union of Christ with His Visible Body. When that Visible Body teaches it is Christ Who teaches.

Thus only what is done out of this union with Christ in us is the Church, such as teaching on faith or morals by the Magisterium, the sacramental life of the Church, the acts of virtue done in grace by the faithful, above all the lives of heroic sanctity of the Saints. All this is Christ in us who cooperate with Him. The errors in teaching by individuals or sections of the Church, the moral failures, the exercises in poor judgment, the omission of doing good when the circumstances require it, all this is done not by virtue of union with Christ, but by virtue of sinners’ own initiative as first cause themselves, and thus not by the Church. It takes divine faith that the Church is this Great Mystery of union between Christ and His Body to see this; a purely sociological approach misses this entirely as does an historical/scientific approach without faith.

To repeat: The Church is Christ extended. One can not speak of the Church in simply a material sense as an organization as sociologists do. We are not the Church so much as CHRIST is the Church. HE is the Temple in His own personal Body. Qualitatively in Him personally is the fullness; by incorporation into Him we participate in this fullness His personal Humanity has. Whatever He unites to Himself is the Mystery of the Church. Now He united Himself visible with the apostolic community at Pentecost never to be separated from that historical community.
 
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Della:
He was referring to the fact that the Church is made up of the people of God who are perfected in Christ through the Holy Spirit. The Church is both human and divine, just as Jesus himself, it’s Head. In its humanity the Church is prone to sin and the frailties of human nature. But, in its divine nature it is perfect. We are awaiting the day when our humanity will be perfected. Then we will all be one with Christ as he is one in his two natures.
👍
 
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Holland:
The local priest said in a homily that we (the folks in the pews, etc.) are the Catholic Church. I thought the Catholic Church established by Christ was perfect and I know that I am not perfect. If we aren’t the Catholic Church then what exactly are we? I thought I knew what was going on till I heard this homily, now I am not sure.
Your priest is absolutely right … as long as he does not put a period there and come to a full stop. That is a common Vatican II Myth. Vatican II does remind us of our being church but it did not delete other understandings. The church is many things at the same time. The church is the people, and the heirarchy. She is the bride of Christ and therefore perfect. She is made up of sinners yet she is pure. The Church is mystery. The church much more than the sum of its parts. To try to define her as only “the people” is too limiting and therefore wholely inadequate. So inadequate as to be in error.
 
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FCEGM:
It has become quite an erroneous fad among some Catholics (including priests) to say “We are the Church”. Rather, Christ extended in us is the Church.
Great posts – well said. 👍

“Christ extended in us” is what the Apostle John means by Christ abiding in us.

Jesus explains the nature of the true church in the parable of the vine and the branches (John 15:1-17). The true church is both the vine (Jesus), and the branches that are attached to the vine (the faithful Christians). All the branches are pruned by the vinedresser (God the Father), but only those branches that are attached to the vine are members of the true church. Some branches are completely lopped of the vine by the vinedresser because these branches do not bear fruit.If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned.
John 15:6

He who does not love abides in death. Any one who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1John 3:14-15
 
The four marks of the Church are: One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.

The Catechism has an entire section on the Church, I highly recommend that you get a Catechism and read this section as it will help you understand your priest’s comments.
 
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