What is the Catholic stance on US/Mexico immigration?

[Glorthac]

My parish is having an ‘open borders’ [sic] meeting, and I can hardly hold myself from screaming everytime they announce it before and after Mass.

Is that really what the Church teaches? I just can’t imagine the Church would teach that if the shoe was on the other foot.

Native American: “Well, hello stranger!”
Spaniard Conquistador: “Hello! We’re a long way from our glorious empire, so we’ll be moving in next to your home.”
NA: “Oh, ok… Good to have a new neighbor.”
SC: “Oh ya, by the way, we’ll move whereever we see fit within your kingdom, Open Borders is what our Church teaches, after all.”
NA: “Well, maybe not everywhere, but we’re alright with having you be a part of our nation.”
SC: “Nope, we’ll move whereever we need to. Open Borders!! You wouldn’t deny poor immigrants, would you?”
NA: “…”

I know my little play’s not perfect, but it conveys my feelings. Anyway, what does the Church teach on the subject?

 

[allyl]

I understand the whole economic aspect of it, I’m not too sure what the Church teaches but I’m confused about your stance. You’re okay with immigrants but you don’t want them to in certain states?

 

[Beth_Cecilia]

justiceforimmigrants.org/index.shtml

That is the page which the USCCB directs you to for a Catholic response to immigration issues. They debunk myths and lies. The help understand the various issues in the context of our faith and history. They have many resources.

 

[Beth_Cecilia]

This is where I would start, specifically.
justiceforimmigrants.org/bishops-call.shtml

The US and Mexican bishops issued a joint statement addressing the issues. This link is to a summary, but you can also find a link to the statement itself. They call for comprehensive reform including:
Global anti-poverty efforts, Expanded opportunities to reunify families, Temporary worker program, Broad-based legalization, and Restoration of due process. Each of these things being explained more fully in the article.

 

[Blacksword]

Good resources certainly for the Church’s stance. Also though, your little play scene is nothing like immigration to the U.S. Spanish conquistadors came to dominate and conquer militarily, Latin immigrants come simply for work with which they can support their families. I’m an immigration attorney, and I’ve noticed that all the Americans who don’t like immigration or are upset by “amnesty” are people who don’t know anything about our actual immigration laws, system, policies and practice, or how in interplays with the domestic economy, international trade, technological progress, health care system, or any of these other enormous macro issues. Simply put, immigrants at the high end of the economy and the low end, legal and illegal, drive our economy. They make up the vast majority of physicists and scientists in our research labs and universities today, they increasingly are the ones who design our cars and planes, conduct our scientific experiments, provide our health care, care for our elderly, teach our college students, build our streets, highways and buildings, farm our land, and drive the computer age and any progress it entails. They are vital at the high end and the low end.

And when it comes to farming and illegals, think about this: we lose entire crops of produce in some farms every year because of want of farm workers, and though we like to think of ourselves as feeding the world with our food, we have been a net importer of produce for several years now. We are worried about dependency on foreign oil, but ok with dependency on foreign food?! This problem would be exponentially worse without the number of undocumented field workers here already. What we need is a more expansive immigration system to provide for a legal entry for people who want to work and whose work we need, yet our basic immigration laws have not changed, except to grow stricter, since 1965! We currently allow for 66000 annual temporary work visas for seasonal farm workers, and that process itself is badly flawed and cumbersome. We need several million of them. Just a few things to keep in mind.

 

[Glorthac]

I understand the whole economic aspect of it, I’m not too sure what the Church teaches but I’m confused about your stance. You’re okay with immigrants but you don’t want them to in certain states?

Well, its more like I’ve seen them become an increasingly large population of my city. I’m OK with them being a minority, but they’re becoming a majority where I live. I don’t want to see our American culture eclipsed by Mexican culture…

That’s why I’d prefer both the US and Mexico work on fixing their country, so they can be happy living there, and we can be happy living here.

You know what I’m saying?

But thanks everybody for the information, I’ll read it!

 

[Blacksword]

Well, its more like I’ve seen them become an increasingly large population of my city. I’m OK with them being a minority, but they’re becoming a majority where I live. I don’t want to see our American culture eclipsed by Mexican culture…

That’s why I’d prefer both the US and Mexico work on fixing their country, so they can be happy living there, and we can be happy living here.

You know what I’m saying?

But thanks everybody for the information, I’ll read it!

Every generation of Americans has said exactly the same thing about the maligned group of immigrants of their day, and it’s never happened. They always end up assimilating and adding their own cultural blend to the American tapestry. They don’t take over. The Latin immigrants of today will do the same, but it will take a little time. It was the Germans in the late 18th Century, then the Chinese and Irish in the 19th Century, then the Italians, Jews, and Eastern Europeans in the early 20th Century…this is the same old story repeating itself. This too will pass.

This is especially poignant in a way too, because on a macro-economic level, NAFTA is a major factor behind the destruction of the Mexican economy, so we are to some extent reaping what we’ve sown. It is a truism that you cannot separate the flow of goods from the flow of people, yet our immigration policies have tried to do just that for decades now.

 

[Blacksword]

And you know, I don’t want to sound aggressive here, but that comment about being “ok” with Latin immigrants being a minority, but not a majority, is a little disturbing frankly. I don’t want to accuse you of anything, but prefacing the worries about losing your “American” culture for a “Mexican” one with that comment really makes it sound like “culture” is being used as a PC euphemism for “white”, as in “I’m fine with them so long as white people like me stay the majority demographic group”.

Surely as a Catholic and member of Christ’s universal church you don’t mean such a racist and un-loving sentiment directed at so many who are our brothers in Christ (the vast majority of Latin nations being devout Catholics), but many reading your post could interpret it that way.

 

[Tigg]

This is where I would start, specifically.
justiceforimmigrants.org/bishops-call.shtml

The US and Mexican bishops issued a joint statement addressing the issues. This link is to a summary, but you can also find a link to the statement itself. They call for comprehensive reform including:
Global anti-poverty efforts, Expanded opportunities to reunify families, Temporary worker program, Broad-based legalization, and Restoration of due process. Each of these things being explained more fully in the article.

While all of these things sound noble, we must be very very careful because many of these social justice groups have been exposed for their political progressive ideology and do nothing to help the poor, but create a kind of community organizing meant to give political clout to those things actually opposed to our Catholic faith.

Threads abound on this forum with many links and information. I believe that Justice for Immigrants is specifically tied into the Catholic Campaign for Human Development and all faithful Catholics should be aware of the on-going scandal the CCHD has caused by giving Catholic money to organizations who support SS marriage and abortion.

 

[exoflare]

The Church doesn’t have an official stance on this; it doesn’t need one. Some incontestably stupid ideas like open borders, using your hairdryer in the bathtub, etc… just don’t require the Church to waste their time declaring the obvious. Otherwise there would never be any time for it to focus on anything else.

Please note the staple tactic that the Regressives always like to use for this topic: illegal immigration is always changed to just “immigration.” Much in the same way that butchering infants gets redefined as “choice.” They think wordplays like this are clever or something.

 

[dsmantz]

Give me a break. I wonder what you would do if the shoe was on the other foot. What would you do when your economy is in ruins, you’re not able to bring in a simple DOLLAR a day, and your family goes starving, no matter how big nor small. Wouldn’t you cross borders (legally or illegally) to provide for your family? Honestly, I don’t care who’s standing on a line telling me I’m not allowed to cross it, when it comes to the welfare of my family and those I love, I’ll cross any line, climb any wall, swim any river, and anything and everything else I have to do to make sure that they survive.

This is nothing new, it just happens to be a different nationality moving in. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are illegal immigrants from every nation on the planet living in America. It’s the way it is. It’s the way it’ll always be. Don’t like the culture? Sorry for your luck, I’m sure they don’t like yours much either.

Go out and be a person of God in a broken world. I have a feeling that when the apostles looked around and saw nothing but culture they didn’t like, instead of sighing and complaining about it, they strapped on some boots and got busy.

 

[Blacksword]

Give me a break. I wonder what you would do if the shoe was on the other foot. What would you do when your economy is in ruins, you’re not able to bring in a simple DOLLAR a day, and your family goes starving, no matter how big nor small. Wouldn’t you cross borders (legally or illegally) to provide for your family? Honestly, I don’t care who’s standing on a line telling me I’m not allowed to cross it, when it comes to the welfare of my family and those I love, I’ll cross any line, climb any wall, swim any river, and anything and everything else I have to do to make sure that they survive.

This is nothing new, it just happens to be a different nationality moving in. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are illegal immigrants from every nation on the planet living in America. It’s the way it is. It’s the way it’ll always be. Don’t like the culture? Sorry for your luck, I’m sure they don’t like yours much either.

Go out and be a person of God in a broken world. I have a feeling that when the apostles looked around and saw nothing but culture they didn’t like, instead of sighing and complaining about it, they strapped on some boots and got busy.

Very true, and a good assessment of the situation. To the poster above who talked about the stupidity of “open borders”, I would ask you; what exactly do you mean by that term? Because if by that term you mean the notion that anyone and everyone who wishes to come can, or simply unregulated immigration I would say two things: first, no one on the immigrants’ rights side of this issue is in favor of letting just anyone in that wants to come in. So this straw man constantly erected to then be knocked down by ignorant, uninformed blowhards like Rush Limbaugh is a total non sequiter, a complete mischaracterization of the other, typically far more educated and informed, side of the issue. Secondly, if by that term you mean unregulated immigration; then guess what? That’s pretty much what we already have to some extent, so you should be in favor of sensible immigration reform too! Reform that takes into account modern, current economic and labor needs, the interests of fundamental fairness and justice, and upholds family unity as a basic social and human good.

The problem here is, on a basic level, the vast majority of Americans know absolutely nothing about the immigration laws or system of our country, and if you don’t know anything about the actual rules or policies driving a system, all you have are uninformed gut feelings about something. Our immigration laws are labyrinthine in nature, only the U.S. Tax Code rivals them in complexity. And as an attorney who specializes in immigration law, I can assure you that our immigration laws and the system they have spawned are fundamentally very unjust, deeply dysfunctional, and are about 40 years out of date. They are completely out of touch with the realities of our economy and society today, and the realities of the global economy in which we live. Our immigration laws destroy families, hurt economic expansion and growth, and fail to serve our national interests. They serve no one…so we shouldn’t be surprised that the current situation we find ourselves in as a result of this system is a total mess.

 

[Ender]

My parish is having an ‘open borders’ [sic] meeting, and I can hardly hold myself from screaming every time they announce it before and after Mass.

Is that really what the Church teaches?

No, this is not what the Church teaches. She has no position on whether the US or any other country should have open borders or any other specific immigration policy such as fences, deportation, or laws such as the one Arizona recently passed.

The Church provides guidelines - which you can find in many of the sources people have provided - but what you will not find is anything requiring Catholics to either support or oppose any specific recommendation. Each of us may form our own opinions on how best to resolve the immigration problems and then support whatever approaches seem best … regardless of what solutions your parish may select.

Ender

 

[TEPO]

Thousands of Mexican men migrate to America to stand on the sidewalks begging for work in front of Uhaul and Home depo’s… When a car pulls up, 5 or 6 of them begin pushing each other out of the way in hope of being first to get work. I’ve been watching the same guys do this week after week, 7 days a week, everyday for at least 9 straight hours… It’s sad to see.

The fact is that they’re no better off here than they are at home… They are punishing themselves for no good reason.

So why should I believe that faith in some “policy change” could benefit these people at all. They have no skills outside basic farming, many of them are middle-aged and have little hope of gaining education, let alone a college degree which is almost mandatory in todays society. So what good would a work visa be…? Won’t they just be adding to the unemployment list…?

I think that a good Catholic stance would be to call your local Bishop and ask how you can donate money to the Catholic Churches of Mexico to feed the poor over there… This would surely be more effective than placing ones faith in some fantasy filled “policy change” on immigration.

 

[rcjksu]

The thread shows that this is a difficult issue for many people of good will. When does “compassion” become socialized and lead to a morass of dependency and ever decreasing standards of living?

I don’t think a reasonable person blames a father trying to feed his family for crossing the border illegally (and it IS illegal). Nor does the reasonable person not identify with the impoverished parent trying to steal food from a grocery store to feed their children.

That doesn’t mean such actions are, or should be, allowed without consequences.

1. When someone enters this country illegally; he or she does a great disservice not only to the citizens of the country they enter, but their fellow citizens who are waiting to enter the country legally as well. They do harm to those who choose to “follow the rules”.
2. Nations have rights to set limits on who enters their country. Whether they set that number correctly can, and should, certainly be debated but that is what the political process is for. I’m willing to wager the vast majority of those who oppose an actual “sealing” of the border and/or effectively advocate “open borders” (including those in the Church) sleep behind doors at night that are closed and locked. When someone knocks on their door, the decide whether to answer it and whether to invite the individual inside. They do not feel the person knocking has a "right’ to gain entry to their home and if that individual were to sneak in; they would almost certainly call the authorities to have the invaders removed.
3. I respectfully disagree with the individual who posted that NAFTA ruined Mexico’s economy. Opening up trade is almost always is a net benefit to the country will the lower wage rates relative to the country with the higher wage rate. The Mexican economy is bedeviled by multiple difficult structural problems; chief among them being the drug war (which drives uncertainty and reduces investment), the quasi-socialist nature of the economy (excessive Government involvement in commerce) and limited rule of law (corruption by public officials). Mexico is a land that is rich in natural resouces that are not productively employed because of those factors. After NAFTA, may jobs left the US for Mexico–unfortunately for Mexico those jobs subsequently left Mexico for Asia.
4. The politics of illegal immigration are insidious. The Democrats look to create a culture of dependency among illegals and thereby ultimately gain their votes. The Republicans look for a virtual “slave labor” class that will be afraid to request basic worker rights and will undercut market wages.
5. Whatever the “right” number of imigrants is; they should be of 100% legal status in my opinion. If we choose not to deport the millions already here illegally, then we must define some sort of “non-citizenship” status for them with no possibility of ever becoming citizens, with very few exceptions, such as serving in combat status in the military perhaps. Citizenship should never be allowed for those who enter the USA illegally. To grant citizenship to illegal aliens would be an insult to those who waited years to get a work visa and came to this country legally.
6. With that said, there is a great need for Christian Charity in Mexico, in the form of prayers and donations. The Mexican people have suffered much and I fear will suffer more before their society “turns the corner” from the current chaos. But Mexico will never be lifted out of poverty until a robust private sector, relatively free of violence by armed thugs and corruption by government stooges, is developed. Pray that the the Drug Lords are thoroughly defeated; that is the necessary first step.

God Bless

 

[TEPO]

Give me a break. I wonder what you would do if the shoe was on the other foot. What would you do when your economy is in ruins, you’re not able to bring in a simple DOLLAR a day, and your family goes starving, no matter how big nor small. Wouldn’t you cross borders (legally or illegally) to provide for your family? Honestly, I don’t care who’s standing on a line telling me I’m not allowed to cross it, when it comes to the welfare of my family and those I love, I’ll cross any line, climb any wall, swim any river, and anything and everything else I have to do to make sure that they survive.

This is nothing new, it just happens to be a different nationality moving in. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are illegal immigrants from every nation on the planet living in America. It’s the way it is. It’s the way it’ll always be. Don’t like the culture? Sorry for your luck, I’m sure they don’t like yours much either.

Go out and be a person of God in a broken world. I have a feeling that when the apostles looked around and saw nothing but culture they didn’t like, instead of sighing and complaining about it, they strapped on some boots and got busy.

Yeh but there’s no jobs here anymore. No money… We sent all our hands-on jobs overseas, so what can they do besides become beggars…?

I personally don’t mind immigrants coming here from wherever, but when we’ve got people leaving their family farms traveling to our country only to live in worse conditions than they started with, I’m left scratching my head… Why…?

 

[RobbyS]

The thread shows that this is a difficult issue for many people of good will. When does “compassion” become socialized and lead to a morass of dependency and ever decreasing standards of living?

I don’t think a reasonable person blames a father trying to feed his family for crossing the border illegally (and it IS illegal). Nor does the reasonable person not identify with the impoverished parent trying to steal food from a grocery store to feed their children.

That doesn’t mean such actions are, or should be, allowed without consequences.

1. When someone enters this country illegally; he or she does a great disservice not only to the citizens of the country they enter, but their fellow citizens who are waiting to enter the country legally as well. They do harm to those who choose to “follow the rules”.
2. Nations have rights to set limits on who enters their country. Whether they set that number correctly can, and should, certainly be debated but that is what the political process is for. I’m willing to wager the vast majority of those who oppose an actual “sealing” of the border and/or effectively advocate “open borders” (including those in the Church) sleep behind doors at night that are closed and locked. When someone knocks on their door, the decide whether to answer it and whether to invite the individual inside. They do not feel the person knocking has a "right’ to gain entry to their home and if that individual were to sneak in; they would almost certainly call the authorities to have the invaders removed.
3. I respectfully disagree with the individual who posted that NAFTA ruined Mexico’s economy. Opening up trade is almost always is a net benefit to the country will the lower wage rates relative to the country with the higher wage rate. The Mexican economy is bedeviled by multiple difficult structural problems; chief among them being the drug war (which drives uncertainty and reduces investment), the quasi-socialist nature of the economy (excessive Government involvement in commerce) and limited rule of law (corruption by public officials). Mexico is a land that is rich in natural resouces that are not productively employed because of those factors. After NAFTA, may jobs left the US for Mexico–unfortunately for Mexico those jobs subsequently left Mexico for Asia.
4. The politics of illegal immigration are insidious. The Democrats look to create a culture of dependency among illegals and thereby ultimately gain their votes. The Republicans look for a virtual “slave labor” class that will be afraid to request basic worker rights and will undercut market wages.
5. Whatever the “right” number of imigrants is; they should be of 100% legal status in my opinion. If we choose not to deport the millions already here illegally, then we must define some sort of “non-citizenship” status for them with no possibility of ever becoming citizens, with very few exceptions, such as serving in combat status in the military perhaps. Citizenship should never be allowed for those who enter the USA illegally. To grant citizenship to illegal aliens would be an insult to those who waited years to get a work visa and came to this country legally.
6. With that said, there is a great need for Christian Charity in Mexico, in the form of prayers and donations. The Mexican people have suffered much and I fear will suffer more before their society “turns the corner” from the current chaos. But Mexico will never be lifted out of poverty until a robust private sector, relatively free of violence by armed thugs and corruption by government stooges, is developed. Pray that the the Drug Lords are thoroughly defeated; that is the necessary first step.

God Bless

I would add one curse under which Mexico has always suffered, the selfishness of the upper class, the unwillingness to share the riches of the country with those outside the “magic circle.” Since the beginning it has been oligarchic, the corrupt form of aristocracy.In allying herself with this class, the Church brought disaster on herself during the Revolution. Consequently, the ordinary people of the nation have been left without knowledge of the Truth Faith.

 

[Tigg]

So why should I believe that faith in some “policy change” could benefit these people at all. They have no skills outside basic farming, many of them are middle-aged and have little hope of gaining education, let alone a college degree which is almost mandatory in todays society. So what good would a work visa be…? Won’t they just be adding to the unemployment list…?

Actually, they have gone way beyond the agricultural sphere. The illegal foreign work force is now the main source of labor for many industries which used to exclusively employ America’s poor such as the blacks. The hotel industry and restaurants are just two examples. (What ever happened to solidarity?) Also they have inundated the construction industry; now, blue-collar citizens compete with them for available jobs. I fear we’ll see an even greater increase in the unemployment rate since the housing market is at the second lowest level in 50 years and so many businesses are driven by this.

 

[Tigg]

The **politics **of illegal immigration are insidious. The Democrats look to create a culture of dependency among illegals and thereby ultimately gain their votes. The Republicans look for a virtual “slave labor” class that will be afraid to request basic worker rights and will undercut market wages.

Agreed! Also, I believe it serves the purpose of desensitizing us to identifying ourselves as Nationals. There seems to be a movement afoot to label the Christian virtue of patriotism as something bad. Instead we must now be multicultural even to the point of giving up our language, or defending our sovereign borders.

 

[Ender]

Whenever a thread is opened that discusses immigration for whatever reason the debate almost instantly goes to the question of how to solve the problems we face, but we should remember what this particular thread is about: what is the Catholic position? Let’s not lose sight of the clear answer to that question: the Church has no teaching whatever about how those problems should be resolved.

We may, and surely will, disagree about specific proposals and that’s what one would expect about any political issue but we should keep in mind that this is a political issue, not a moral one.

Ender