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BlessedSacraments
Guest
I was always taught that a Catholic being obedient to the Catholic Church does not fit the definition of being Scrupulous.
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SantaFe
Guest
it’s kind of like the definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. In this case it means literally being OCD about the smallest of things, for example: I said “Darn” is that a mortal sin? I saw a bra in the store, am I doomed to hell? Those kind of things, pretty much making a mountain out of a very small molehill.
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Vico
Guest
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FiveLinden
Guest
I’d be interested to know if such a ‘remedy’ has ever been known to work. OCD and OC personality disorder as far as I know have no recommended treatments along these lines.
People with OCD who are religious are likely to have religious obsessions. Thos in charge of safety on construction sites are likely to obsess about safety. Those who paint old houses will obsess about hurting others with lead paint dust. It is not a religious issue. It’s a mental illness.
LaughingBoy1503
Well-known member
It worked for me. I am diagnosed OCD and was scrupulous. While I dont think I’ll ever be 100% cured, I’ll say for the last 4 or so years I’m 95% better. I just obeyed my spiritual director. A good Carmelite priest. He said he thought in a Year I would pretty much be cured. He was correct.
That is simplifying things, it took a lot of courage, time and effort to overcome what I overcame by the grace of God and that awesome, kind priest
That is simplifying things, it took a lot of courage, time and effort to overcome what I overcame by the grace of God and that awesome, kind priest
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BarbTh
Guest
It worked for me!
I had prepared carefully for a general confession. Scruples had harassed me with depression for years, though only hindsight a long time after told me I had been scrupulous.
I bought an exercise book and wrote down every single thing I could think of over a number of days prior to the confession
On the day, Father listened so patiently and quietly to my recitation of about a two page list of real and imagined sins - some things not sinful at all I now realise. He gave me a gentle penance (a Hail Mary or some similar rote prayer). Then as I got up to leave the confessional, he said “Be happy”. At that moment, I felt a huge load coming off my shoulders and was in a bit of a dazed state to kneel down and pray my penance.
When I left the Church, I was still in a dazed state as I marvelled that even everything around me appeared beautiful after years of depression and scruples. My heart and mind, soul, had Peace established again and it has never left me.
The above is not stating at all that confession can heal scruples as a hard and fast rule, the above is simply me relating my experience. In the normal course, I would talk with a priest - and at almost 75 years of age now, with many experiences of rich diversity - positive and negative - under my belt, I can now state that I would be very careful indeed about the priest, or therapist, with whom I was going to confide. The soul suffering scruples is extremely vulnerable and fragile, lacking in self esteem, and deserving of great compassion and understanding, patience. That soul has a great desire to Love and serve God even if he or she does not know it. Scruples is a dreadful spiritual trial and deep suffering affecting the mind, in my book, with disordered/obsessional thinking.
I suffer bipolar disorder and a serious mental illness, and perhaps I was OCD, and a contributor to decidedly disordered thinking, but the hidden primary source of scruples was deeper and spiritual. We sufferers of serious mental illness can be at the same time deeply spiritual beings
I most always prefix a confession that I suffer bipolar disorder and have made private vows (with the agreement of my Archbishop at the time and a Home Mass to renew life vows).
Never underestimate the unique spiritual charism and wondrous gift of Holy Orders - i.e. gifted to our good and faithful priests.
My opinion is that the priest in confession did not intend to relieve me of scruples with stating “Be happy”. I think that The Lord saw into Father’s loving and gentle heart that day and granted me a cure of scruples through Father. I was going to seek him out and explain what happened, but was too embarrassed and overcome by the experience to do so. The Good Lord will reward him.
I very much doubt indeed that a soul who is not concerned much at all about loving and serving God will suffer with scruples. But only my opinion.
Don’t put anything at all impossible to God, for -
"Matthew 19:26 … "And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
I had prepared carefully for a general confession. Scruples had harassed me with depression for years, though only hindsight a long time after told me I had been scrupulous.
I bought an exercise book and wrote down every single thing I could think of over a number of days prior to the confession
On the day, Father listened so patiently and quietly to my recitation of about a two page list of real and imagined sins - some things not sinful at all I now realise. He gave me a gentle penance (a Hail Mary or some similar rote prayer). Then as I got up to leave the confessional, he said “Be happy”. At that moment, I felt a huge load coming off my shoulders and was in a bit of a dazed state to kneel down and pray my penance.
When I left the Church, I was still in a dazed state as I marvelled that even everything around me appeared beautiful after years of depression and scruples. My heart and mind, soul, had Peace established again and it has never left me.
The above is not stating at all that confession can heal scruples as a hard and fast rule, the above is simply me relating my experience. In the normal course, I would talk with a priest - and at almost 75 years of age now, with many experiences of rich diversity - positive and negative - under my belt, I can now state that I would be very careful indeed about the priest, or therapist, with whom I was going to confide. The soul suffering scruples is extremely vulnerable and fragile, lacking in self esteem, and deserving of great compassion and understanding, patience. That soul has a great desire to Love and serve God even if he or she does not know it. Scruples is a dreadful spiritual trial and deep suffering affecting the mind, in my book, with disordered/obsessional thinking.
I suffer bipolar disorder and a serious mental illness, and perhaps I was OCD, and a contributor to decidedly disordered thinking, but the hidden primary source of scruples was deeper and spiritual. We sufferers of serious mental illness can be at the same time deeply spiritual beings
I most always prefix a confession that I suffer bipolar disorder and have made private vows (with the agreement of my Archbishop at the time and a Home Mass to renew life vows).Never underestimate the unique spiritual charism and wondrous gift of Holy Orders - i.e. gifted to our good and faithful priests.
My opinion is that the priest in confession did not intend to relieve me of scruples with stating “Be happy”. I think that The Lord saw into Father’s loving and gentle heart that day and granted me a cure of scruples through Father. I was going to seek him out and explain what happened, but was too embarrassed and overcome by the experience to do so. The Good Lord will reward him.
I very much doubt indeed that a soul who is not concerned much at all about loving and serving God will suffer with scruples. But only my opinion.
Don’t put anything at all impossible to God, for -
"Matthew 19:26 … "And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
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Vico
Guest
There are different senses of the word obsess; an occupation is intended activity rather than intrusive thoughts and compulsive reactions to thoughts or events.
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BarbTh
Guest
Thank you for sharing, LB.
The difference between our two experiences indicates that The Holy Spirit cannot be pinned down and confined, I think. The moment an attempt is made to confine Him and pin Him down - establish His borders, He can suddenly break free of such concepts and make an abrupt and unanticipated dash in another direction - as it were. I think that is what happened with VII. For many of us, it shocked our socks right off!
I had an OMI religious priest (Oblate of Mary Immaculate) as my spiritual director. He was also superior of his community of OMI. He too had a loving, beautiful and gentle heart. He is decd now…I used to think he was just tooooo gentle and kind with me
He was not the priest I confessed to with scruples - that had occured years before he became my spiritual director.
You are very blest indeed, LB to have a Carmelite priest as director. No Carmelite priests where I live. But a Carmelite prioress and ex Regional Congregational Leader is my best pal, mentor and sometimes advisor…for over 40 years now. I first met her just after VII changed things for religious and nuns, religious priests…religious orders in general.
I hope yesterday (15th October 2020) - for me in South Australia the feast of St Teresa of Avila - was a day blest with interior Joy and the gentle breeze for you too.
Peace and Joy
Barb
> Five Linden " …Thos[e] in charge of safety on construction sites are likely to obsess about safety. Those who paint old houses will obsess about hurting others with lead paint dust. It is not a religious issue. It’s a mental illness."
Hi Five Linden - I agree with you, FL, that OCD is a mental illness; however the person with mental illness still has a spiritual dimension. Just as a cancer, lung or heart patient has a spiritual dimension. Mental illness, is an illness and the brain is an organ of the body just as lungs, heart, liver, kidneys etc. We are ill just like any other ill person - but often society still cannot come to grips with facts rather than stigma.
I do not mean to infer that you disagree with my concepts…although, you might and great. It means that the truth of the matter is not yet out in the open.
Peace and Joy
Barb
The difference between our two experiences indicates that The Holy Spirit cannot be pinned down and confined, I think. The moment an attempt is made to confine Him and pin Him down - establish His borders, He can suddenly break free of such concepts and make an abrupt and unanticipated dash in another direction - as it were. I think that is what happened with VII. For many of us, it shocked our socks right off!
I had an OMI religious priest (Oblate of Mary Immaculate) as my spiritual director. He was also superior of his community of OMI. He too had a loving, beautiful and gentle heart. He is decd now…I used to think he was just tooooo gentle and kind with me
He was not the priest I confessed to with scruples - that had occured years before he became my spiritual director.You are very blest indeed, LB to have a Carmelite priest as director. No Carmelite priests where I live. But a Carmelite prioress and ex Regional Congregational Leader is my best pal, mentor and sometimes advisor…for over 40 years now. I first met her just after VII changed things for religious and nuns, religious priests…religious orders in general.
I hope yesterday (15th October 2020) - for me in South Australia the feast of St Teresa of Avila - was a day blest with interior Joy and the gentle breeze for you too.
Peace and Joy
Barb
> Five Linden " …Thos[e] in charge of safety on construction sites are likely to obsess about safety. Those who paint old houses will obsess about hurting others with lead paint dust. It is not a religious issue. It’s a mental illness."
Hi Five Linden - I agree with you, FL, that OCD is a mental illness; however the person with mental illness still has a spiritual dimension. Just as a cancer, lung or heart patient has a spiritual dimension. Mental illness, is an illness and the brain is an organ of the body just as lungs, heart, liver, kidneys etc. We are ill just like any other ill person - but often society still cannot come to grips with facts rather than stigma.
I do not mean to infer that you disagree with my concepts…although, you might and great. It means that the truth of the matter is not yet out in the open.
Peace and Joy
Barb
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FiveLinden
Guest
What a great result! I will try to find some studies about this. Were/are you also treated with medication?
LaughingBoy1503
Well-known member
No medication at all. I went to two OCD treatment sessions with a specialists that specialized in “Religious scrupulosity OCD” but my insurance did not cover “Talk therepy” as they called it. My counselor insisted that they had to cover my treatment, as it was the law (or something, its been years) that I had to be able to be treated.
I payed a lot out of pocket for those two sessions but Instead of following up with my insurance I sought out my spiritual director. 11 months later I was pretty much good.
I hope it doesn’t violate CAF guidelines to make reference to one’s post in another thread, especially when that thread has been closed, but I’d like to share this, that I wrote earlier today:
Is lying a mortal sin (in this case)? Moral Theology
Again, I don’t know how this slipped into the “moral DNA” of a few faithful Catholics, but it is bad news. I once had an evangelical to tell me that even the smallest sin is enough to go to hell for, but in their theology, that doesn’t matter, because once someone has been “saved”, all sins, past, present, and future, are forever covered and washed away in His Blood. Catholics don’t get off quite that easy.
I see no need basically to rewrite this all over again for this thread, but I will just reiterate that the tendency among a few faithful, orthodox Catholics to say “every sin against the Ten Commandments is a mortal sin” is very dangerous and could lead to crippling scrupulosity. Aside from the precepts of the Church — Sunday Mass obligation, duty to support the Church financially, obedience to the Church’s marriage laws, etc. — what other kinds of sins are there, than sins against the Ten Commandments?
Again, I don’t know how this slipped into the “moral DNA” of a few faithful Catholics, but it is bad news. I once had an evangelical to tell me that even the smallest sin is enough to go to hell for, but in their theology, that doesn’t matter, because once someone has been “saved”, all sins, past, present, and future, are forever covered and washed away in His Blood. Catholics don’t get off quite that easy.
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