What is the definition of Soul?

[Theodora]

Is the soul that part of a person that animates the body?

Also, what can be considered attributes of the soul?
I am thinking virtues.

Just like the moral law is written on each heart - it is understood that not everyone is sensitive to the same degree of this law - does the soul also comes basically equipped with the virtues, just like it does with the moral law?

Or are virtues like talents? Some have them and some don’t.

If all this is not right, then please enlightened me on this subject.

 

[Didi]

From the Catechism online here:
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1B.HTM

363 In Sacred Scripture the term “soul” often refers to human life or the entire human person. But “soul” also refers to the innermost aspect of man, that which is of greatest value in him, that by which he is most especially in God’s image: “soul” signifies the spiritual principle in man.

364 The human body shares in the dignity of “the image of God”: it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit:

Man, though made of body and soul, is a unity. Through his very bodily condition he sums up in himself the elements of the material world. Through him they are thus brought to their highest perfection and can raise their voice in praise freely given to the Creator. For this reason man may not despise his bodily life. Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honour since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day.

365 The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the “form” of the body: i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature.

366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not “produced” by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.

367 Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people “wholly”, with “spirit and soul and body” kept sound and blameless at the Lord’s coming. The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul. “Spirit” signifies that from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God.

368 The spiritual tradition of the Church also emphasizes the heart, in the biblical sense of the depths of one’s being, where the person decides for or against God.

 

[thistle]

Theodora:

Is the soul that part of a person that animates the body?

Also, what can be considered attributes of the soul?
I am thinking virtues.

Just like the moral law is written on each heart - it is understood that not everyone is sensitive to the same degree of this law - does the soul also comes basically equipped with the virtues, just like it does with the moral law?

Or are virtues like talents? Some have them and some don’t.

If all this is not right, then please enlightened me on this subject.

**CCC 363: In Sacred Scripture the term “soul” often refers to human life or the entire human person.230 But “soul” also refers to the innermost aspect of man, that which is of greatest value in him,231 that by which he is most especially in God’s image: “soul” signifies the spiritual principle in man. **

 

[Theodora]

Didi:

From the Catechism online here:
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1B.HTM

363 In Sacred Scripture the term “soul” often refers to human life or the entire human person. But “soul” also refers to the innermost aspect of man, that which is of greatest value in him, that by which he is most especially in God’s image: “soul” signifies the spiritual principle in man.

364 The human body shares in the dignity of “the image of God”: it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit:

Man, though made of body and soul, is a unity. Through his very bodily condition he sums up in himself the elements of the material world. Through him they are thus brought to their highest perfection and can raise their voice in praise freely given to the Creator. For this reason man may not despise his bodily life. Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honour since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day.

365 The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the “form” of the body: i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature.

366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not “produced” by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.

367 Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people “wholly”, with “spirit and soul and body” kept sound and blameless at the Lord’s coming. The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul. “Spirit” signifies that from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God.

368 The spiritual tradition of the Church also emphasizes the heart, in the biblical sense of the depths of one’s being, where the person decides for or against God.

I am trying to visualize or understand all this: soul, spirit, heart.

OK, just to get to the gist of things: soul signifies the spiritual principal in man. A spiritual soul is immortal. It refers to the inner aspects of man.

Man’s created spirit is ordered to supernatural end. Along with the soul it never dies. These two are closely tied together, but, yet, spirit can be apart from the soul. In that case no immortality; like an animal has a soul, but no spirit (?), so no imortal soul.

Do I have this correct so far?

Heart: the depths where moral decisions are made.
**Question: ** Would heart encompass mind and will? Because, these last two (what would we call them: aspects? attributes?) also come into play when making moral decisions.

 

[DBT]

**Question: ** Would heart encompass mind and will? Because, these last two (what would we call them: aspects? attributes?) also come into play when making moral decisions.

I’m certainly no expert and I’m going from memory so I might be off on some of this, but many of the Doctors of the Church (especially St. Teresa and St. John) speak of the soul as our will, intellect and memory .

Union with God is when all three aspects of the soul are in complete conformity with God. Spirtual conflicts are often the result of a conflict between the higher soul (our will) and the lower soul (intellect and memory) . . . when we desire and seek the things of God but our passions get in the way.

Just my 2 cents . . . hope it helps.

Dave

 

[DBT]

Here is a brief extract from St. John of the Cross that shows his teaching on virtue and the soul:
Dark Night of the Soul:

. . . the three faculties of the soul, which are understanding, memory and will. For faith voids and darkens the understanding as to all its natural intelligence and herein prepares it for union with Divine Wisdom. Hope voids and withdraws the memory from all creature possessions. Charity, in the same way, voids and annihilates the affections and desires of the will for whatever is not God, and sets them upon Him alone; and thus this virtue prepares this faculty and unites it with God through love.

I kind of look at the soul this way: that which we love (will), that which we think (understanding/intellect) and that which we know (memory).

Union with God *through Love * is a principal teaching of the Saints . . . and the will is the driver in all of this. This is why the Saints focus so much of their teaching on the Union of Wills. And perserverence in the practice of the virtues is perhaps the most essential thing we can do, in accordance with grace, to bring this about.

Dave.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Quoting Theodora:

Is the soul that part of a person that animates the body?

Soul and body are intimately connected. The body is sacred and a temple of the Holy Spirit and will eventually be reunited with the body after death. It is a mistake in this earthly life to consider soul and body as distinct, rather intimately connected. God has made us body and soul in partnership - not opposition

Also, what can be considered attributes of the soul?
I am thinking virtues.

The three powers of the soul are: memory, understanding and will.
Virtues: Faith, Hope, Charity. Wisdom, understanding, cousel, knowledge, fortitude, piety, fear of The Lord. Prudence, Justice, Fortitude and Temperance. From these virtues flow others such as humility, meekness, gentleness, kindness, consideration, hospitalilty etc. etc.

Just like the moral law is written on each heart - it is understood that not everyone is sensitive to the same degree of this law - does the soul also comes basically equipped with the virtues, just like it does with the moral law?

]
This is a prerogative of God and I tend to think there is no fixed theology as to degree.

Or are virtues like talents? Some have them and some don’t.

Usually all virtues to some degree or other are present in the person in Grace…in a state of friendship with God. The various virtues may not be immediately apparent but may become apparent in certain situations etc. Take for example St. Therese of Lisieux. The very high degree of virtue present in her did not become quite apparent until she wrote, under obedience, her life story.

This is simply only as I understand matters.

Barb

 

[Theodora]

BarbaraTherese:

Quoting Theodora:

The three powers of the soul are: memory, understanding and will.
Virtues: Faith, Hope, Charity. Wisdom, understanding, cousel, knowledge, fortitude, piety, fear of The Lord. Prudence, Justice, Fortitude and Temperance. From these virtues flow others such as humility, meekness, gentleness, kindness, consideration, hospitalilty etc. etc.
]

Barb

Thank you everyone for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I now have a better understanding what is meant by Soul: intellect, will, and memory. I never would have considered memory as part of the soul.

Question: If someone is defective in his memory, but is otherwise considered an “angel” when still sound of mind, would this person, because of lack of memory in more advanced years, has become less of a beatiful soul? Memory has deteriorated, person becomes somewhat psychotic, acts erratic in ways that in a person with a healthy mind is considered sinful. What’s really happening here with the soul?

Barb, also thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. Yes, Faith, Hope, and Charity are virtues. But I think that Wisdom, Understanding, Counsel, Perseverance (Fortitude), Knowledge, Piety, and the Fear of the Lord are considered Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

I donot know under which classification Prudence (would that be an other word for Wisdom?), Justice (Knowledge?) and Temperance (same as Patience, Love?) belong.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Hello there Theodora…

Question: If someone is defective in his memory, but is otherwise considered an “angel” when still sound of mind, would this person, because of lack of memory in more advanced years, has become less of a beatiful soul? Memory has deteriorated, person becomes somewhat psychotic, acts erratic in ways that in a person with a healthy mind is considered sinful. What’s really happening here with the soul?

The defining of memory, understanding and will as powers of the soul are understood in theological terms of the person’s relationship with God. Certainly a person with a quite defective memory which is a physical matter not spiritual, who is considered angelic and a beautiful soul has God in memory…God is Love. It could be thought of along these lines as an example only. I am striving to be a loving person and to love God…but I find days go by and I never think of God. As time goes by I find I think of Him a couple of times a day. As more time goes by I may be brought by God to an awareness of The Lord always with me. My memory as it were is being purified of distracting concerns and is mostly occupied with God and yet the person is still able to be quite active in worldly concerns. Something like that.
And I do hope I have not led you up a garden path…I am most unsure of my ground.
I am sure Apologetics can ensure you would not be led astray with your questions and rather than take my word, certainly refer to the Apologetics Forums which I know will be able to set matters in place for you and accurately answer your questions.
I am no apologist nor theologian…far far from it!

Barb, also thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. Yes, Faith, Hope, and Charity are virtues. But I think that Wisdom, Understanding, Counsel, Perseverance (Fortitude), Knowledge, Piety, and the Fear of the Lord are considered Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Yes…you are quite right, they are the seven Gifts of The Holy Spirit at Confirmation. They are also virtues of a type but dont quote me. Someone else may be more knowledgeable than I, or if you really want to know, I am sure the Apologetics Forum will be helpful.

I donot know under which classification Prudence (would that be an other word for Wisdom?), Justice (Knowledge?) and Temperance (same as Patience, Love?) belong.

Prudence, Justice, Fortitude and Temperance are known as The Cardinal Virtues and temper the other virtues in true Charity - again as I understand matters.

Faith, Hope and Charity are the Theological Virtues conferred at Baptims.

Barb

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Hi Theodora…I was able to chase up the following, which includes imagination…
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/ncd03201.htm
New Catholic Dictionary

faculties of the soul

(Latin: facere, to do)

Qualities by which the human soul is able to act, or proximate principles of human activity, the remote principle being the soul itself, the faculties being the imagination, memory, understanding, will. Hence the order is soul, one or other faculty, act. All human acts are ultimately attributed to the person, the ego. Some moderns, considering faculties as a “bundle of detached powers”, independent autonomous entities existing apart from the soul and shattering its unity, have denied their existence. Faculties of the soul are merely qualities or properties, modes through which the soul acts. Faculties explain well the changes of consciousness, the essentially different kinds of consciousness, and the variations in capacities or powers, all proceeding from the same soul.

 

[Theodora]

BarbaraTherese:

Hi Theodora…I was able to chase up the following, which includes imagination…
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/ncd03201.htm
New Catholic Dictionary

faculties of the soul

(Latin: facere, to do)

Qualities by which the human soul is able to act, or proximate principles of human activity, the remote principle being the soul itself, the faculties being the imagination, memory, understanding, will. Hence the order is soul, one or other faculty, act. All human acts are ultimately attributed to the person, the ego. Some moderns, considering faculties as a “bundle of detached powers”, independent autonomous entities existing apart from the soul and shattering its unity, have denied their existence. Faculties of the soul are merely qualities or properties, modes through which the soul acts. Faculties explain well the changes of consciousness, the essentially different kinds of consciousness, and the variations in capacities or powers, all proceeding from the same soul.

Thank you BarbaraTherese for your research about what I asked about “attributes” or “aspects” of the soul and here in the above paragraph it is explained as “qualities” or “properties” being: Imagination, Memory, Understanding, and Will.

But then this sentence **Hence the order is soul, one or other faculty, act. **With my soul’s imagination , my soul’s understanding just does not comprehend what this means.

Then also this: ** Some moderns, considering faculties as a “bundle of detached powers”, independent autonomous entities existing apart from the soul and shattering its unity, have denied their existence. **

---

Some moderns have denied their existence. Does *their existence *refer to the faculties which are imagination, memory, understanding, and will. How CAN these be denied? Why was there even an attempt made to make these “powers” a part of a soul, and at the same time their existence is denied?

So what is this paragraph really saying. First I M U W are faculties, then they’re not?

I am not want to sound ungrateful, and I truly appreciate you’re taking time in finding answers to my questions. But as you can see, I now have even more questions. Especially this: Some moderns, considering faculties as a “bundle of detached powers”, independent autonomous entities existing apart from the soul and shattering its unity, have denied their existence.

To some this might make sense, but not to me. It’s sounds so convoluted.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Theodora:

Thank you BarbaraTherese for your research about what I asked about “attributes” or “aspects” of the soul and here in the above paragraph it is explained as “qualities” or “properties” being: Imagination, Memory, Understanding, and Will.

But then this sentence **Hence the order is soul, one or other faculty, act. **With my soul’s imagination , my soul’s understanding just does not comprehend what this means.

Then also this: **Some moderns, considering faculties as a “bundle of detached powers”, independent autonomous entities existing apart from the soul and shattering its unity, have denied their existence. **

Some moderns have denied their existence. Does *their existence *refer to the faculties which are imagination, memory, understanding, and will. How CAN these be denied? Why was there even an attempt made to make these “powers” a part of a soul, and at the same time their existence is denied?

So what is this paragraph really saying. First I M U W are faculties, then they’re not?

I am not want to sound ungrateful, and I truly appreciate you’re taking time in finding answers to my questions. But as you can see, I now have even more questions. Especially this: Some moderns, considering faculties as a “bundle of detached powers”, independent autonomous entities existing apart from the soul and shattering its unity, have denied their existence.

To some this might make sense, but not to me. It’s sounds so convoluted.

Hello Theodora…gee Theodora I certainly am no theologian or apologist for sure just another Catholic stumbling and bumbling along the road. I do not mean at all to palm you off, but I feel in honesty that your questions and entirely valid, also intelligent, questions are outside me field of confident knowledge and suggest you post into our Apologetics Forum where I know they will be entirely helpful and answer all your questions from real knowledge - outside my field as I said of confident knowledge.

I am fearful I will lead both you and I and perhaps readers of this thread astray by any attempt to answer your Post to me as much as I really would like to be helpful. I hear knowing one’s limitations is a part of wisdom and knowledge, so I hope I get a plus somewhere from my inadequacy in the area you are searching.

I am sure our Apologetics Forum will answer ALL your questions and searching fully and from real knowledge of theology and apologetics.

Sorry! and do wish I could be more helpful…

Regards - Barb

 

[Theodora]

Thank you Barb for your help. I am pretty sure I will stumble on an explanation some day that I will be able to better understand.

Theodora

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Theodora:

Thank you Barb for your help. I am pretty sure I will stumble on an explanation some day that I will be able to better understand.

Theodora

I am sorry to have let you down and proved unequal to the task. I know for a fact that you will find discussion and perhaps answers in our Apologetics Forum which I very very rarely visit except to read as my confident knowledge is not at all Apologetics or indeed Theology and Philosophy, except for a working everyday type of knowledge.

Blessings in your quest Theodora…

Regards, Barb

 

[Theodora]

BarbaraTherese:

I am sorry to have let you down and proved unequal to the task. I know for a fact that you will find discussion and perhaps answers in our Apologetics Forum which I very very rarely visit except to read as my confident knowledge is not at all Apologetics or indeed Theology and Philosophy, except for a working everyday type of knowledge.

Blessings in your quest Theodora…

Regards, Barb

Barb,

Thank you for your blessings. Rest assured that your taking the time to help me with my questions is greatly appreciated. Don’t feel like you let me down. I got some answers, and that’s better than none.

You should know that my older brother used to be a Thomas Aquinas fan. When he passed away I inheritied his entire library of books which included the complete set of Thomas Aquinas Disputed Questions. I had forgotten about them, because I had stored them in a box in the garage. ASA I remembered I retrieved them (before the termites, ants or vermin will destroy them.)

I am almost sure that I will find answers to my questions. Hopefully soon, I will take a deep breath, grit my teeth and start reading the deep thoughts of Thomas A. - And to think that after he had a vision of God, he said his writings were nothing but straw. How discouraging… Just kidding

Also, with best regards

Theodora

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Theodora:

Barb,

Thank you for your blessings. Rest assured that your taking the time to help me with my questions is greatly appreciated. Don’t feel like you let me down. I got some answers, and that’s better than none.

You should know that my older brother used to be a Thomas Aquinas fan. When he passed away I inheritied his entire library of books which included the complete set of Thomas Aquinas Disputed Questions. I had forgotten about them, because I had stored them in a box in the garage. ASA I remembered I retrieved them (before the termites, ants or vermin will destroy them.)

I am almost sure that I will find answers to my questions. Hopefully soon, I will take a deep breath, grit my teeth and start reading the deep thoughts of Thomas A. - And to think that after he had a vision of God, he said his writings were nothing but straw. How discouraging… Just kidding

Also, with best regards

Theodora

Your Post above Theodora gave me encouragement, that I had not completely failed and thank you for that. “Every day keep encouraging one another” (Divine Office).
The Lord will never allow an honest seeker to go astray not in the complete sense of the word to my mind. Certainly St. Thomas will never lead you astray and to my mind again, although I must admit that I find him far too ‘heavy’ for me, but I do not hence dismiss him since I can recognize that his intellect was far more gifted than mine and it was meant to be since his call is totally different from mine. The wonder of The Mystical Body!
As to his final years assessment of his writings as ‘so much straw’…it is not at all encouraging is it. I think perhaps St. Thomas was implying that in comparison with the vision that He was granted, his words were indeed ‘so much straw’ for any human knowledge at any level cannot even approximate God. Rather perhaps a pointing in that direction. Or the formula that will lead one to the answers it could be said, loosely speaking.

Blessings again Theodora…and at the risk of Shakespeare’s “methinks thou protesteth too loud”…if you have any questions or perhaps ponderings that remain unenlightened do try Apologetics who if they cannot answer you, I am sure they will point you in the general direction.
If I think I have all the answers at this point in time, I may be closing my mind to something most important: the truth of the matter or a step closer to it. I daresay St. Thomas and St. Augustine and our two most influential theologians and thinkers in Catholicism started out on a quest to discern the truth of matters or closer to it.

Barb