What is the difference between Mormons and Islam?

[majick275]

I did.

humore me and list them again

Wow. That last paragraph was a joke, m’friend. I’m well aware that community theater isn’t unique to Mormons–it is simply beloved by them. Considering that “Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat,” while being a staple in Utah community theater, was written by a man who is definitely NOT
Mormon, I would think that would be obvious.

i know it was a joke but it had a purpose

As to what happened when BY was running Utah? Oh, let’s see: women had the vote when very few women anywhere else did. In fact, the feds took the vote AWAY from the women in Utah. BY was sending women back east to medical school, and encouraging education for women in law, medicine, education and the arts when most women anywhere else had very little access to it.

and you call my statements misleading? utah women lived under a patriarchal theocracy and were given the vote with BY’s confidence that they would vote as he directed. hardly a feminist paradise. shall we discuss mormonism and the ERA?

The first thing BY did after picking a site for the Temple was to pick VERY GOOD sites for building churches for other denominations, before he alloted sites for anything else.

how is that relevant?

Was it a bit of a theocracy? Well, yeah. Pretty much had to be, given the pressure on them from outside. We still managed to be individuals, and invent, learn, grow and contribute to the arts and sciences.

a bit of a theocracy? that’s like calling a tsunami somewhat moist. groupthink is all too common in Utah. even other mormons joke about utardedness. what great contributions to the arts and sciences?

Oh, as to 'anti-catholic" mormon stuff out there?

Lessee: let me set the parameters; to me, “anti;” means publications aimed at the general public for the express purpose of discrediting, destroying, or turning people away from, a stated belief system.{/quote] i think JS-H easily qualifies
dianaiad;4622918:

It will contain deliberate inaccuracies, (that’s “lies,”) and will twist facts to make them seem to be different than they are.

that’s an arbitrary distinction. i disagree with that. of course we would also disagree on what “twisitng the facts” means as well.

They will take things out of context–and if one accuses a specific belief system of engaging in it, you had better be able to prove that the publication is from officially sanctioned church sources.

here we get into difficulty as there is little consistency from mormons on this. the seer, mconkie’s doctrine and the journal of discourses all present issues here. too much wiggle room as even mormon scriptures seem to change.

Now I can show you anti-Catholic stuff from the Baptists and from many other Protestant sects.

and we can meet those challenges. i think it perfectly valid to discuss those.

I can show you anti-semitic stuff from Catholic sources,

wouild like to see that.

Protestant sources and Islamic sources. I can show you anti-Mormon stuff from all the above using those specific parameters, and all of them published within the last year or so.

i agree you can. your point?

I can give you titles enough to fill a New York phone book.

yep me too.

Can you show me the anti Catholic, or anti-any other specific belief system, publications from the Mormons within the last fifty years? How about the last century?

if it still published as canonized scripture it counts. i think mormon doctrine, doctrines of salvation, answers to gospel questions and hinkley’s talk on the nicene creed all qualify.

???

I’ll wait.

no need. every missionary discussion starts with the great apotasy. you seem to have no clue how offensive that is. that is anticatholic as it gets.

 

[dianaiad]

that you are aligned with an ahmadi muslim certainly speaks volumes

“aligned with?”

Because he recognizes the oddity of all these different groups who reserve the title to themselves, and kick each other out of the ‘club?’

Indeed, it’s delicious. If every Christian group who denied the title “Christian” to another were correct, then there would indeed be no Christians on the planet.

That’s not ‘aligning,’ that’s appreciation of irony.

 

[majick275]

“aligned with?”

Because he recognizes the oddity of all these different groups who reserve the title to themselves, and kick each other out of the ‘club?’

Indeed, it’s delicious. If every Christian group who denied the title “Christian” to another were correct, then there would indeed be no Christians on the planet.

That’s not ‘aligning,’ that’s appreciation of irony.

who reserves titles to themselves? catholics and methodists see each other as christian. we even recognize each others baptisms. what about the LDS who claim that NO other church contains ANY sacramental grace and that God removed ALL authority to act in his name for almost 2 thousand years and then ONLY restored to Mormons (unless they were black)? irony? i call it hypocrisy. you guys literally wrote the book on kicking people out of the “club”.

 

[mfbukowski]

**Ahmadis are followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, which obviously is not a major sect in Islam. Which is also very young in comparison to Christianity which is over two thousand years old. The Ahmadis may appear to be peaceful but one should not judge. Especially if you make that claim to be a Ahmadi a peaceful muslim, this statement makes the rest of Islam appear not peaceful. It very much distorts and confuses other on what Islam is. I want to learn from the mainstream muslim about Islam not from someone who is just sowing confusion. **

Wow. Change the words “Ahmadi” to “Mormon” and this sounds like a typical anti- Mormon post. Same arguments

1- Mormonism cannot be true because it is not old
2- Mormonism sows confusion in Christianity.

 

[dianaiad]

who reserves titles to themselves? catholics and methodists see each other as christian. we even recognize each others baptisms. what about the LDS who claim that NO other church contains ANY sacramental grace and that God removed ALL authority to act in his name for almost 2 thousand years and then ONLY restored to Mormons (unless they were black)? irony? i call it hypocrisy. you guys literally wrote the book on kicking people out of the “club”.

Excuse me, but while it is very true that we teach of a great apostacy–and in that we are no different than many other Christian faiths including YOURS–and it is also true that we believe that the priesthood authority was lost and needed restoring, we have not EVER declared that any other Christian faith was not, indeed, a Christian faith.

Indeed, that would be…well…you. You ask who is reserving the title to themselves? Well, the Catholics do in terms of Mormons, I guess…and evangelical groups do it in the case of Catholics and Mormons–and JW’s and just about everybody who isn’t them.

 

[rob179ny]

Wow. Change the words “Ahmadi” to “Mormon” and this sounds like a typical anti- Mormon post. Same arguments

1- Mormonism cannot be true because it is not old
2- Mormonism sows confusion in Christianity.

I wonder who got the idea first !

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Excuse me, but while it is very true that we teach of a great apostacy–and in that we are no different than many other Christian faiths including YOURS–and it is also true that we believe that the priesthood authority was lost and needed restoring, we have not EVER declared that any other Christian faith was not, indeed, a Christian faith.

QUOTE]

 

[swariffin]

Hi, I take it that this is the question you were referring to:

The position of Joseph Smith on the above is as follows:

1. We worship one God whom we address as the Father. However, we also believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and a divine being, which would contradict Islam. We also believe that the Father and the Son are two separate beings, which contradicts mainstream Christianity as well.
2. We believe that Joseph Smith is a prophet like any other prophet that has ever lived. He is a carrier of God’s message, not God himself; and we don’t worship him as such. However, that would still be a contradiction to Islam, because Islam teaches that Mohamed was the last prophet, and that there won’t be any more prophets after him.

So it looks like according to your criteria you Joseph Smith would not qualify as a prophet! But we don’t accept that your criteria is a valid one. We believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and a divine being; and we believe that Mohamed was not the last prophet, which allows room for Joseph Smith to be a prophet to.

zerinus

And another room for Mirzha Ghulam Ahmad to be a prophet too according to the Ahmadiyya.

 

[zerinus]

And another room for Mirzha Ghulam Ahmad to be a prophet too according to the Ahmadiyya.

Or the Bab according to the Bahais!

zerinus

 

[majick275]

Excuse me, but while it is very true that we teach of a great apostacy–and in that we are no different than many other Christian faiths including YOURS–and it is also true that we believe that the priesthood authority was lost and needed restoring, we have not EVER declared that any other Christian faith was not, indeed, a Christian faith.

Indeed, that would be…well…you. You ask who is reserving the title to themselves? Well, the Catholics do in terms of Mormons, I guess…and evangelical groups do it in the case of Catholics and Mormons–and JW’s and just about everybody who isn’t them.

hair splitting at best. to deny ALL sacramental grace in effect achieves the same end. The Catholic church has never taught that there was a universal apostasy. we also consider those not in communion with us to still be christian and recognize most baptisms. so there are the fringe cults that set themselves up as somehow so unique and different that their relative youth requires a “restoration”. mormons, sda’s, jw’s and the like.

Mormons don’t really worship Christ, they certainly don’t pray to him (despite the BoM example of that) Mormons are henotheists who worship elohim and “honor” Christ.

 

[dianaiad]

Dianaiad;

 

[dianaiad]

hair splitting at best. to deny ALL sacramental grace in effect achieves the same end. The Catholic church has never taught that there was a universal apostasy. we also consider those not in communion with us to still be christian and recognize most baptisms. so there are the fringe cults that set themselves up as somehow so unique and different that their relative youth requires a “restoration”. mormons, sda’s, jw’s and the like.

Mormons don’t really worship Christ, they certainly don’t pray to him (despite the BoM example of that) Mormons are henotheists who worship elohim and “honor” Christ.

(shrug) We do not tell you that you are not Christian. We certainly don’t tell you that you don’t have truth, or don’t worship God and His Son, even if you have different ideas about Him than we do.

In fact, all the posts from Catholics and others in this thread that are arguing with me about this issue are actually confirming my point: that WE aren’t the ones excluding YOU from Christianity. That would be you, reserving to yourselves the title.

True, we don’t share the same doctrine. That’s not the same thing.

 

[RebeccaJ]

(shrug) We do not tell you that you are not Christian. We certainly don’t tell you that you don’t have truth, or don’t worship God and His Son, even if you have different ideas about Him than we do.

In fact, all the posts from Catholics and others in this thread that are arguing with me about this issue are actually confirming my point: that WE aren’t the ones excluding YOU from Christianity. That would be you, reserving to yourselves the title.

True, we don’t share the same doctrine. That’s not the same thing.

This is incredibly disengenuous. You aren’t saying what Mormons believe, so therefore, all of Christianity is picking on Mormons.

Mormonism is founded on, your canon is clear, that ALL of Christianity is an abomination.

So don’t be waving your little boo-hoo I’m so excluded while trying to love, love all of you.

IT’S BS.

It is the responsibility of every Catholic to fight heresy. Mormonism is heretical.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Mormonism is founded on, your canon is clear, that ALL of Christianity is an abomination.

A resounding AMEN to that, Rebecca!

Dianaiad NEVER addresses the issue or answers a direct question (must be a mormon ‘thing’) about her religion’s MAJOR divisions from mainstream Christianity.

To quote Scripture to her about the BoM’s contradictions elicits silence and a feint to another thread of discussion.

Mormonism is heresy, as is Islam.

And this has absolutely NOTHING to do the inherent goodness and contributions of law-abiding mormons and moslems throughout the world.

But it has EVERYTHING to do with origins and theology, or as is the case with mormonism, pantheology.

Robert