What is the fundamental reason a person defends abortion?

[gurneyhalleck1]

Very good points that I was thinking earlier but didn’t enumerate as well as yourself, canadian. I like your line of thinking here. It’s very lucid.

Homosexuality, for example, is a sin in Islam, Christianity, orthodox Judaism, Hinduism, Sikkhism, and it’s disordered and thus not allowed in Therevada Buddhism, most ancient and established religions of any numerical consequence. Funny how they all agree it’s a sin and yet we ignore them all and go with secular braintrusts.

And as you said, Catholicism condemns most sinful acts that are also part of the criminal code so we’d have to overturn everything just because it’s “too Catholicky!” People want to pick and choose, of course. Since the Catholic Church says to be kind to immigrants, I guess these same pro-abortion folks would have to dump the kindness to immigrants as well and tighten those borders! And the peace and just war doctrine makes war more scrutinized and a more righteous endeavor, I guess they’ll have to dump that, too!

Let me point out the absurdity of the above post. I am going to revise where every word that applies to abortion and the abortion issue will be substituted for stealing.

Speaking only for myself:

I support our legal system providing the right to steal because I (and most other people in the US) do not believe that stealing involves taking something that isn’t mine but something that I am entitled to.

While I recognize that I personally am bound by my membership in the Catholic Church to respect its definition of stealing when evaluating my own conduct, 225 million of my countrymen aren’t Catholic and are therefore not bound to respect Catholic teaching in this area.

There is a reason why I experts who also steal define stealing as something that involves huge amounts without no definition of what a huge amount is. Once we reach that level where we steal that amount, then I believe the person who has been stolen from acquires rights that are in certain cases more compelling that the rights of the stealer.

In short, Catholics can’t steal, but not everyone is Catholic. If we try to force the 75% of the US population who aren’t Catholic to adhere to Catholic teaching on this what’s next? Are we going to try passing laws making it illegal for people to kill their own unborn baby?
[sarcasm off]
If abortion can’t be banned because its against the teachings of the Catholic Church then we have to overturn the entire criminal code as every criminal code offense is also a sin in Catholicism!

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

The reason: Accepting a Lie.

 

[BillP]

I think the life of a baby is a little higher on the scale of importance than abstinence from meat!

Me too. But according to the Church (which is of course infallible) the penalty for the two acts is exactly the same… an eternity spent in Hell.

Take it up with them.

 

[BillP]

No its not “dubious” it is American’s attitudes about abortion very well known and have been repeatedly shown.

21% prefer abortion being legal in all circumstances

57% prefer abortion being legal in some circumstances (exceptions for rape/incest and life/health of the mother are most common)

18% prefer abortion being illegal in all circumstances
gallup.com/poll/122033/u.s.-abortion-attitudes-closely-divided.aspx

So, less than one in five Americans are what the Catholic CHurch would call “pro-life”

This is nonesense, Slavery was legal for three hundred years and there was “no referendum” Women weren’t permitted to vote for more than 100 years and there was no vote. I guess our system is different.

I guess this is the crux of our difference. I take my membership in the American political system very seriously. I believe that all political authority comes from the consent of the governed. As a member of a religious minority (<25% of Americans are Catholic) I cannot expect the majority to conform to my religious outlook. And in fact repeatedly and vociferously demanding that they do so is one of the surest ways to get my religious rights and freedoms curtailed.

I tell you what I’ve give you my understanding of the situation then you can apologize for your patronizing and supercilious post, how about that?

If I with full knowledge and consent knowingly and willingly procure or assist another in procuring a direct abortion then I have committed a mortal sin and if I die before repenting of said sin will spend eternity, separated from God in Hell.

Is that right?

If I If I with full knowledge and consent knowingly and willingly eat meat in a Friday during Lent then I have committed a mortal sin and if I die before repenting of said sin will spend eternity, separated from God in Hell.

Is that right?

NOW tell me why, if we’re in the business of preventing non-Catholics from having abortion, we’re not equally concerned with slapping cheeseburgers out of their hands?

 

[jmcrae]

So, less than one in five Americans are what the Catholic CHurch would call “pro-life”

So, what?

I have never heard that God was taking a referendum on the matter. Killing innocent, defenseless people is always wrong, no matter how young or old, or how inconvenient to those who are supposed to love them, they may be.

 

[tomarin]

Frank’s daughter was Nancy. She even had a hit song you may not remember.
You really need to get better books with better facts in them.

I was talking about his wife, Nancy Barbato Sinatra (or “Big Nancy”). They also named one of their two daughters Nancy who of course grew up to be a popular singer herself.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

It’s scary that nowdays people view morality as a straw poll
I concur, jm

So, what?

I have never heard that God was taking a referendum on the matter. Killing innocent, defenseless people is always wrong, no matter how young or old, or how inconvenient to those who are supposed to love them, they may be.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

The young girls who are able to continue their educations and achieve independent productive lives because they aren’t saddled with more responsibility than they can bear when they’re 14 or 15.

The children who will have enough to eat and adequate clothing because their parents chose to terminate a pregnancy that would have resulted on one more child than they could provide for.

The children who will grow up with their Mom taking care of them instead of dying while trying to carry a pregnancy to full term.

This is just overly dramatic claptrap. Be honest. Would it matter to you if abortion was a humane and painless procedure? No you’d still be against it. the don’t pretend that you’re against it because of the “burning saline” or the “tearing of litle bodies”. That’s just inflammatory rhetoric designed to stop people from thinking.

Your justification of abortion is sickening. Obviously you do not believe that abortion is wrong. I expected to see “Atheist” in the space giving your religion.

Abortion is not a humane and painless procedure, is it? Like putting down a sick animal? Just a little sweep of the curette and no more baby, right? Just a little suction and it’s all over? And all the problems that were there before that baby was conceived? Were they also swept out of life with the baby cut up and suctioned out? No. The problems have not been solved.

If you don’t want to bring life into being, then don’t have sex outside of marriage. That doesn’t seem so difficult to understand.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

He was pronouncing my statement about saline abortions and the bodies of babies being ripped apart by a curette or a suction machine. But that is exactly what does happen. It is not overly dramatic. Anyone can read about how Abby Johnson, the Director of the Planned Parenthood clinic in Bryan Texas, saw an abortion taking place because she was asked to hold the ultrasound instrument on the baby so the abortionist could guide his instrument to the right place. She saw the baby move away from the suctioning tip, and then she saw the baby disappear. People who have worked in abortion clinics explain that they have to look through the contents of the uterus to make sure the whole baby is there, although it is in pieces. I freaking WORKED for an OB GYN who did abortions! I saw how destroyed the nurses were - he went through many nurses because they couldn’t stand it! I didn’t understand what was happening, I was very young and they didn’t tell me what was really happening until I was ready to leave. Then it all made sense. I know what destruction this brutality causes!

 

[Pug]

I empathize, not with the slapping cheeseburgers comment, but with the concern that probably gave rise to it. It is hard to acquire an intuitive understanding of sending someone to hell on account of them eating a few ounces of meat. I assume they weigh the person’s soul against the meat and become angry that a seemingly trivial, ordinarily upright action is enough to destroy someone, not just kill them. I suspect that it can appear so callous and disregarding of human welfare that it could cause sharp anger.

Perhaps if it causes disgust and anger, that is why the example is chosen, since abortion also causes disgust and anger. Of course, the example could have been intended otherwise.

 

[dmelosi]

No its not “dubious” it is American’s attitudes about abortion very well known and have been repeatedly shown.

21% prefer abortion being legal in all circumstances

57% prefer abortion being legal in some circumstances (exceptions for rape/incest and life/health of the mother are most common)

18% prefer abortion being illegal in all circumstances
gallup.com/poll/122033/u.s.-abortion-attitudes-closely-divided.aspx

So, less than one in five Americans are what the Catholic CHurch would call “pro-life”

This is nonesense, Slavery was legal for three hundred years and there was “no referendum” Women weren’t permitted to vote for more than 100 years and there was no vote. I guess our system is different.

I guess this is the crux of our difference. I take my membership in the American political system very seriously. I believe that all political authority comes from the consent of the governed. As a member of a religious minority (<25% of Americans are Catholic) I cannot expect the majority to conform to my religious outlook. And in fact repeatedly and vociferously demanding that they do so is one of the surest ways to get my religious rights and freedoms curtailed.

I tell you what I’ve give you my understanding of the situation then you can apologize for your patronizing and supercilious post, how about that?

If I with full knowledge and consent knowingly and willingly procure or assist another in procuring a direct abortion then I have committed a mortal sin and if I die before repenting of said sin will spend eternity, separated from God in Hell.

Is that right?

If I If I with full knowledge and consent knowingly and willingly eat meat in a Friday during Lent then I have committed a mortal sin and if I die before repenting of said sin will spend eternity, separated from God in Hell.

Is that right?

NOW tell me why, if we’re in the business of preventing non-Catholics from having abortion, we’re not equally concerned with slapping cheeseburgers out of their hands?

Simple, the difference between right and wrong. You are saying it is ok to kill someone, as long as you don’t do it.