What is the standard against which you measure your understanding of Scripture?

[Catholic4aReasn]

What is the standard against which you measure the accuracy of your understanding of scripture?

In other words, how can you be certain that you are not unknowlingly mistaken about your understanding of scripture? What do you compare your understanding against to make sure you’re not mistaken?

 

[Trelow]

CCC

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Catholic4aReasn:

What is the standard against which you measure the accuracy of your understanding of scripture?

In other words, how can you be certain that you are not unknowlingly mistaken about your understanding of scripture? What do you compare your understanding against to make sure you’re right?

The eternally infallible Magisterium of the Catholic Church, as commissioned and ordained by the Lord, Jesus Christ through St. Peter and the Apostles.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

What Scott said!

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[Bob_Baran]

Sacred Tradition, the Magisterium, and Holy Scripture.

 

[michaelp]

None accurately represent the Reformers model which would be a Spirit-led exegesis which involved Scripture interpreting Scripture, historical-grammatical-literary hermeneutic, and the community of faith.

 

[ahimsaman72]

Catholic4aReasn:

What is the standard against which you measure the accuracy of your understanding of scripture?

In other words, how can you be certain that you are not unknowlingly mistaken about your understanding of scripture? What do you compare your understanding against to make sure you’re not mistaken?

I wouldn’t want to get into a long, drawn out conversation, but I understand where you are coming from and where you are going with this - I think.

I know most of my personal study has been done in this way:

1. prayer for enlightenment,
2. reading the Scripture for myself - several times - and cross-referencing with other passages to get an accurate understanding.
3. use of concordances and lexicons to get the meanings and listings of particular words and phrases.
4. use of commentaries and Bible encyclopedias (such as Matthew Henry’s Commentary)
5. reference theologians and preachers - early and modern
6. trusted Christian brothers and sisters in local assembly (older ones especially)
7. local pastors and teachers

And to get to your last points - when they all disagree with one another - what do you do? and, how do you know what is truth?

The simple answer is that I make a choice based on the information, evidence and arguments given and go with the most reasonable and logical conclusions.

I may not know for sure that what I decide on is the absolute truth. But, for me that’s not a problem. Just as you may not know whether or not you are worthy to go to heaven. As that is the fundamental question of your life - it doesn’t seem to bother many Catholics. I don’t sit around and wonder. I leave my mind open to the possibilities.

What I find interesting is what I mentioned before - Catholics don’t have assurance of salvation but that doesn’t seem to disable you from living your life. The same is true for protestants like me who have assurance of salvation but don’t have assurance of every doctrine and teaching that has come down the pike. What will be will be - if my view is wrong in the end then so be it. If I’ve done my best to reconcile my beliefs with the evidence presented, then the ball is in God’s court. He will have to judge. And we would all agree His judgements are just and righteous.

Hope this helps.

Peace…

 

[Fidelis]

michaelp:

None accurately represent the Reformers model which would be a Spirit-led exegesis which involved Scripture interpreting Scripture, historical-grammatical-literary hermeneutic, and the community of faith.

So much for perpescuity of the Scripture for the average Christian!

 

[Fidelis]

ahimsaman72:

If I’ve done my best to reconcile my beliefs with the evidence presented, then the ball is in God’s court. He will have to judge. And we would all agree His judgements are just and righteous.

This is true, however God will hold us responsible for the evidence he has presented us, but refused to acknowledge. If he offers us the Bible, and it is indeed God’s Word, we disregard it at our peril. Similarly, if he offers us the Church as the interpreter and teacher of his Truth on earth, and it happens to be true, but we choose to disregard it, we would be equally accountable. Indeed, his judgements are just and righteous.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

ahimsaman72:

I wouldn’t want to get into a long, drawn out conversation, but I understand where you are coming from and where you are going with this - I think.

I know most of my personal study has been done in this way:

1. prayer for enlightenment,
2. reading the Scripture for myself - several times - and cross-referencing with other passages to get an accurate understanding.
3. use of concordances and lexicons to get the meanings and listings of particular words and phrases.
4. use of commentaries and Bible encyclopedias (such as Matthew Henry’s Commentary)
5. reference theologians and preachers - early and modern
6. trusted Christian brothers and sisters in local assembly (older ones especially)
7. local pastors and teachers

And to get to your last points - when they all disagree with one another - what do you do? and, how do you know what is truth?

The simple answer is that I make a choice based on the information, evidence and arguments given and go with the most reasonable and logical conclusions.

I may not know for sure that what I decide on is the absolute truth. But, for me that’s not a problem. Just as you may not know whether or not you are worthy to go to heaven. As that is the fundamental question of your life - it doesn’t seem to bother many Catholics. I don’t sit around and wonder. I leave my mind open to the possibilities.

What I find interesting is what I mentioned before - Catholics don’t have assurance of salvation but that doesn’t seem to disable you from living your life. The same is true for protestants like me who have assurance of salvation but don’t have assurance of every doctrine and teaching that has come down the pike. What will be will be - if my view is wrong in the end then so be it. If I’ve done my best to reconcile my beliefs with the evidence presented, then the ball is in God’s court. He will have to judge. And we would all agree His judgements are just and righteous.

Hope this helps.

Peace…

Hi ahimsaman72!

A few of questions:

Does knowing the truth matter? Why or why not?

Jesus said that we will “know the truth and the truth will set you free (John 8:32)”. Why would Jesus tell us that we would know the truth if we really can’t know the truth? Why would Jesus make the unknowable the requirement for spiritual freedom?

If you can’t know that you have the truth you can’t know that you’ve been set free. If you can’t know that you’ve been set free how can you have assurance of salvation?

In Christ,
Nancy

PS. We have a moral assurance of salvation. Because no one can know the future and know whether or not one will “endure to the end (Matt 10:22)” no one has an absolute assuarance of salvation. In other words, if you die right now you can know right now. If you’re going to die in 25 years you can’t know right now.

 

[michaelp]

Fidelis:

So much for perpescuity of the Scripture for the average Christian!

In other words, just use common sense. This is the same way you read you newspaper each morning. It is the same way you read the church fathers. It is not that hard.

Michael:thumbsup:

 

[michaelp]

ahimsaman72:

I wouldn’t want to get into a long, drawn out conversation, but I understand where you are coming from and where you are going with this - I think.

I know most of my personal study has been done in this way:

1. prayer for enlightenment,
2. reading the Scripture for myself - several times - and cross-referencing with other passages to get an accurate understanding.
3. use of concordances and lexicons to get the meanings and listings of particular words and phrases.
4. use of commentaries and Bible encyclopedias (such as Matthew Henry’s Commentary)
5. reference theologians and preachers - early and modern
6. trusted Christian brothers and sisters in local assembly (older ones especially)
7. local pastors and teachers

And to get to your last points - when they all disagree with one another - what do you do? and, how do you know what is truth?

The simple answer is that I make a choice based on the information, evidence and arguments given and go with the most reasonable and logical conclusions.

I may not know for sure that what I decide on is the absolute truth. But, for me that’s not a problem. Just as you may not know whether or not you are worthy to go to heaven. As that is the fundamental question of your life - it doesn’t seem to bother many Catholics. I don’t sit around and wonder. I leave my mind open to the possibilities.

What I find interesting is what I mentioned before - Catholics don’t have assurance of salvation but that doesn’t seem to disable you from living your life. The same is true for protestants like me who have assurance of salvation but don’t have assurance of every doctrine and teaching that has come down the pike. What will be will be - if my view is wrong in the end then so be it. If I’ve done my best to reconcile my beliefs with the evidence presented, then the ball is in God’s court. He will have to judge. And we would all agree His judgements are just and righteous.

Hope this helps.

Peace…

Wow! That was great. That is exactly how I go about it.

Michael

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

michaelp:

In other words, just use common sense. This is the same way you read you newspaper each morning. It is the same way you read the church fathers. It is not that hard.

Michael:thumbsup:

Hi michaelp!

Where does scripture tell us that common sense is the best method for interpreting scripture? If it’s not in the bible, how have you come to embrace this method?

If this is truly the best method then truth does not matter since any conclusion that anyone draws is equally valid. Where does scripture support this idea? If it’s not in the bible how have you come to understand that truth does not matter?

Reading the newspaper does not require the guidance of the holy Spirit. Is the holy Spirit a necessary guide for correct interpretation of scripture?

Is correct interpretation of scripture important? Why or why not?

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[michaelp]

Fidelis:

Similarly, if he offers us the Church as the interpreter and teacher of his Truth on earth, and it happens to be true, but we choose to disregard it, we would be equally accountable. Indeed, his judgements are just and righteous.

Hey, wait just a cotten picken minute! He had the consultation of pastors and commentaries. They are part of the Church as well, arn’t they? So I guess we do follow the same method, unless you wanted to change your wording and say that “he offers us the Church as the infallible interpreter and teacher of his Truth on earth.” If not, then I think we are in complete agreement!

Michael

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

“he offers us the Church as the infallible interpreter and teacher of his Truth on earth.”

This is absolutley correct!!

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

Originally Posted by ahimsaman72
*I wouldn’t want to get into a long, drawn out conversation, but I understand where you are coming from and where you are going with this - I think.

I know most of my personal study has been done in this way:

1. prayer for enlightenment,

1. reading the Scripture for myself - several times - and cross-referencing with other passages to get an accurate understanding.

1. use of concordances and lexicons to get the meanings and listings of particular words and phrases.

1. use of commentaries and Bible encyclopedias (such as Matthew Henry’s Commentary)

1. reference theologians and preachers - early and modern

1. trusted Christian brothers and sisters in local assembly (older ones especially)

1. local pastors and teachers

Wow! That was great. That is exactly how I go about it.

Michael

And chances are that because of that there are things about which the two of you hold conflicting and contradictory beliefs, while both believing that yours is the truth.

In that case, truth must be relative to the believer. Is that supported in scripture? If not, why do you embrace it?

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[michaelp]

If this is truly the best method then truth does not matter since any conclusion that anyone draws is equally valid. Where does scripture support this idea? If it’s not in the bible how have you come to understand that truth does not matter?

I guess that I could ask the same question about the catechism. What is the method that you use in interpreting the catechism? You have to have one. You probebly just use common sense.

Frankly, I have come to realize as I view the interpretaions of the catechism on this site and all the literally thousands of disagreements, that the Scripture is easier to interpret than the catechism. But as you might say, it is just my fallible opinion.

But you can just borrow from the method that AHIMSAMON72 laid out. It will work for your catechism as well.

Hope you are having a great day,

Michael

 

[PaulDupre]

Scott_Lafrance:

The eternally infallible Magisterium of the Catholic Church, as commissioned and ordained by the Lord, Jesus Christ through St. Peter and the Apostles.

I’m with Scott.
Paul

 

[michaelp]

Catholic4aReasn:

And chances are that because of that there are things about which the two of you hold conflicting and contradictory beliefs, while both believing that yours is the truth.

In that case, truth must be relative to the believer. Is that supported in scripture? If not, why do you embrace it?

In Christ,
Nancy

“In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity.” That is our modo.

Also, I don’t start with the need to have agreement with everyone on everything. I don’t know why everyone thinks this has to be. Unity among diversity. This is the way that it has always been. Christ’s prayer for unity was for an ontological unity that has been fullfilled by the baptism of the Spirit, not an absolute creedal unity on all matters.

Again, there are not that many people on this site that agree on much, so why should I think that you live by this standard that you set up (i.e. that all should be in agreement on everything) when I don’t even see it here on the Catholic Apologetics website. (Which by the way has the most informed Roman Catholics that I have ever seen).

Michael

 

[Fidelis]

michaelp:

In other words, just use common sense. This is the same way you read you newspaper each morning. It is the same way you read the church fathers. It is not that hard.

Michael:thumbsup:

Not quite . You don’t need commentaries and Greek lexicons to read the newspaper. If reading the bible were so clear and commonsensical, there’s wouldn’t be 30,000 Protestant denominations with nearly as many Scripture interpretations.