What is "Transubstantiation" in relationship to the Liturgy and the Sacraments?

[grannymh]

I am a non-Catholic who has been following and conversing in caf for some time now. If I were to ever get close to thinking of joining the Catholic Church, one big hurdle for me would be transubstantiation. “Christ is present in the Eucharist under the appearance of bread and wine” sounds very Lutheran to me as in consubstantiation. Maybe I am misunderstanding?

Another thing that concerns me is the content of your last sentence. Why does blind acceptance satisfy the person in the pew? I myself want to know what I am to believe and why.

You are correct that in general, Lutheran consubstantiation is similar to Catholic transubstantiation because both terms refer to the presence of Christ. The basic difference, which I learned years ago, is that consubstantiation means that Christ co-exists with the substance of bread. The “tran” in transubstantiation, like transforms, means that the presence of Christ changes the substance of bread into Himself without changing the natural characteristics of the bread. I doubt if Christ’s hair, a characteristic/accident, would have a good taste.

I know that there is more to the Lutheran consubstantiation, but I would rather hear from a Lutheran than try to be accurate from memory.

The reality of humans is that some people will be satisfied with blind acceptance of Catholic teachings. Maybe that is the virtue of humility in that there is total trust in Divine Revelation as proclaimed by the Catholic Church. On the other hand, maybe they are lazy when it comes to going deeper into their faith. Who am I to judge? Who am I to care?

Personally, I want to know the base or foundation for what I am to believe. For me, the foundation for Catholic teachings are these three essential truths.

1. God as Creator exists.
2. God as Creator interacts personally with each individual human.
3. Every individual human has the inherent capacity to interact with God as Creator.

As a cradle Catholic, I still had to find out the truth. As a teenager, I had to stamp my foot, look up at the sky, and in a forceful manner say – “God, I want to know if You exist and I want to know right now.”

As an adult, I can understand that transubstantiation is often a hurdle. Fortunately, I had a good professor who could explain substance and accidents/characteristics. Without that, I would lean on Chapter 6, Gospel of John.

 

[otjm]

By the fact that there is very little “low tone” left in the liturgy and it’s virtually ALL vernacular now, it seems that the Session 22 doctrine has already been severely undermined without getting into Transubstantiation issues.

Issues of tone and vernacular are not doctrinal. And the changes in those things were not an undermining of any doctrine.

For crying out loud - the earliest Church celebrated in two parts - what we might now call the Liturgy of the Word was done on the Sabbath - Saturday - and the Eucharist was Celebrated on Sunday; and without any low tones the Church managed to keep doctrine true.

If doctrine had to be supported by low tones and the vernacular adamantly forbidden, then it is truly a wonder that the Church ever got to the point of the Mass in Latin and at least somewhat like eventually was settled upon at Trent - and that completely ignores all of the variations of the Eastern rites. Nothing in the OF has in any way, shape or form undermined any doctrine.

 

[Vico]

Right. Most of the Canons/anathemas you stated are no longer applicable or have been superceded by later Canon Law or Papal decree. But the underlying doctrine still remains, though, as I stated, much of it has been severely undermined. Or ignored altogether. Otherwise it would be repeated more often, from the pulpit if nothing else.

I hear if every time, for example:

I
Be pleased, O God, we pray, to bless, acknowledge, and approve this offering in every respect; make it spiritual and acceptable, so that it may become for us the Body and Blood of your most beloved Son, our Lord Jesus Christ.
II
Make holy, therefore, these gifts, we pray, by sending down your Spirit upon them like the dewfall, so that they may become for us the Body + and Blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ.
III
Therefore, O Lord, we humbly implore you: by the same Spirit graciously make holy these gifts we have brought to you for consecration, that they may become the Body and + Blood of your Son our Lord Jesus Christ at whose command we celebrate these mysteries.
IV
Therefore, O Lord, we pray: may this same Holy Spirit graciously sanctify these offerings, that they may become the Body + and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ for the celebration of this great mystery, which he himself left us as an eternal covenant.
Chysostom (Byzantine Catholic)
Moreover, we offer to you this spiritual and unbloody sacrifice; and we implore, pray, and entreat you: send down your Holy Spirit upon us and upon these gifts lying before us.
And make this bread the precious body of your Christ.
And that which is in this chalice the precious blood of your Christ.
Changing them by your Holy Spirit.

 

[ProVobis]

I hear if every time, for example:

Yes, but that doesn’t explain Transubstantiation. The average pewsitter has no clue as to why the Body and Blood are significant. He might as well think relics.

The Soul and Divinity are what makes it totally significant. We become co-sharers of that.

 

[ProVobis]

Yes, but that doesn’t explain Transubstantiation. The average pewsitter has no clue as to why the Body and Blood are significant. He might as well think relics.

The Soul and Divinity are what makes it totally significant. We become co-sharers of that.

I found this beautiful prayer in the EF which may be of interest to some: (difficult to translate into readable English so I’ve provided an interlinear version)

Deus, qui humanæ substantiæ dignitatem
God, Who of human substance dignity

mirabiliter condidisti,
wonderfully has created,

et mirabilius reformasti:
and more wonderfully reformed:

da nobis per hujus aquæ et vini mysterium,
give to us through this of water and wine mystery,

ejus divinitatis esse consortes
His divinity to be partakers

qui humanitatis nostræ fieri dignatus est particeps,
Who in humanity our to become has granted partaker,

Jesus Christus Filius tuus Dominus noster:
Jesus Christ Son Your Lord our:

 

[Vico]

Yes, but that doesn’t explain Transubstantiation. The average pewsitter has no clue as to why the Body and Blood are significant. He might as well think relics.

The Soul and Divinity are what makes it totally significant. We become co-sharers of that.

You mean such as shown by this prayer in the Ordinary Form of the Mass (roman Ritual)?

Per huius aquæ et vini mystérium
eius efficiámur divinitátis consórtes,
qui humanitátis nostræ fíeri dignátus est párticeps.

By the mystery of this water and wine
may we come to share in the divinity of Christ
who humbled himself to share in our humanity.

And that we are in one Body:

E.P. I
In humble prayer we ask you, almighty God:
command that these gifts be borne
by the hands of your holy Angel
to your altar on high
in the sight of your divine majesty,
so that all of us, who through this participation at the altar
receive the most holy Body and Blood of your Son,
may be filled with every grace and heavenly blessing.
Through Christ our Lord. Amen.

EP II
Humbly we pray that, partaking of the Body and Blood of Christ, we may be gathered into one by the Holy Spirit.

EP III
Look, we pray, upon the oblation of your Church, and, recognizing the sacrificial Victim by whose death you willed to reconcile us to yourself, grant that we, who are nourished by the Body and Blood of your Son and filled with his Holy Spirit, may become one body, one spirit in Christ.

EP IV
Look, O Lord, upon the Sacrifice which you yourself have provided for your Church, and grant in your loving kindness to all who partake of this one Bread and one Chalice that, gathered into one body by the Holy Spirit, they may truly become a living sacrifice in Christ to the praise of your glory.

Byzantine Catholic
In you, O Master who love us all, we commit our whole life and hope, and we implore, pray, and entreat you: make us worthy to partake with a clear conscience of your heavenly and awesome mysteries from this sacred and spiritual table. May they bring about the remission of sins, the pardon of transgressions, the communion of the Holy Spirit, the inheritance of the kingdom of heaven, confidence in you, not judgment or condemnation.

…

Broken and distributed is the Lamb of God, broken yet not divided, ever eaten yet never consumed, but sanctifying those who partake thereof.

 

[ProVobis]

You mean such as shown by this prayer in the Ordinary Form of the Mass (roman Ritual)?

Per huius aquæ et vini mystérium
eius efficiámur divinitátis consórtes,
qui humanitátis nostræ fíeri dignátus est párticeps.

By the mystery of this water and wine
may we come to share in the divinity of Christ
who humbled himself to share in our humanity.

You found it. Is it one of the silent prayers?

 

[Vico]

You found it. Is it one of the silent prayers?

It is at the mixing of water with the wine.

“The celebrant pours wine and a little water into the chalice saying quietly:”

 

[grannymh]

As I am wrapping up my thoughts, I realize that Transubstantiation only takes place in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. That may not be a big deal to you folks, but in my present neighborhood, one person suggested re-evangelization for the people in the pews at the Sunday Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Thanks to you wonderful participants, I now have interesting information which can be used. It really is true that Sunday Holy Sacrifice of the Mass unites us, as Catholics, in our own community of faith. It is Transubstantiation which gives life to our own community of faith.

My goal is to begin testing the waters, that is, talking with people, a few weeks following the Feast of the Sacred Heart of Jesus. Please keep my parish and myself in your prayers.

A sincere thank you to all who participated in this thread.

 

[chimo]

I don’t think it matters. No one really understands it, but with everything else that’s a mystery, we’re always trying to find the right words (or equations) that express it to some personal satisfaction. Either you accept it’s a mystery or you’re going to spend the rest of your life in frustration. All my opinion, of course.

I beg to differ. In this day of age we can come to better understandings. Just check out Bishop Fulton Sheen’s tv telecasts on the Eucharist. I think it does matter because we are a generation that needs to understand it better. One of the problems with Eucharistic teachings is it does not simplify itself in order for the adults to see it in the way children can perceive it. Children have a more opened mind in this regard and the adults who would only learn the old concepts do not have this ability to teach to the newer generations concepts that they could relate better to. We can always better ourselves to use concepts that can translate better what the Eucharist is. However if you are only brought up with the older concepts than I would see it as frustrating. The point though is it needs not to be frustrating.

 

[MarkInOregon]

I see that as a start.

I am going back to when was the last time that ordinary folk in the pews heard the word “Transubstantiation”?

Does it matter if they hear the word if they’re taught what it means i.e. they’re taught that there is a complete change in the substance of bread and wine into the substance of Christ’s body and blood so that only the accidents of bread and wine remain when the priest consecrates the bread and wine. Let’s face it no one heard the term before the 11th century and that didn’t have an impact on the pews as far as I can tell.

I think there are other forces at work leading toward empty pews–that I don’t think would be cured by hearing the word Transubstantiation.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[otjm]

Does it matter if they hear the word if they’re taught what it means i.e. they’re taught that there is a complete change in the substance of bread and wine into the substance of Christ’s body and blood so that only the accidents of bread and wine remain when the priest consecrates the bread and wine. Let’s face it no one heard the term before the 11th century and that didn’t have an impact on the pews as far as I can tell.

I think there are other forces at work leading toward empty pews–that I don’t think would be cured by hearing the word Transubstantiation.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

I don’t think there should be any fear of teaching it (age appropriate). and there is a need to distinguish transubstantiation from consubstantiation.

However, I agree with you that there are far more issues afoot as to why people leave the Church than this.

 

[MarkInOregon]

Thank you. Thank you.

“The Church and the world have a great need for Eucharistic worship. Jesus awaits us in this sacrament of love.” St. John Paul II,* Domenicae Cenae* on a bookmark of mine.

And I located the 1997 Pastoral Letter of the Most Reverend Thomas G. Doran, D.D., J.C.D., Bishop of Rockford, IL. This Pastoral Letter “On the Most Holy Eucharist” aka “Toward a Eucharistic Spirit” was given to parishioners in pamphlet form.

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=466

The Holy Spirit does not mess around when I ask a question about the word sacramental. Again, thank you. The words “Sacrament and Sacrifice” just arrived from my memory bank. Google, a part-time employee of the Holy Spirit, gave me this link. therealpresence.org/eucharst/link/e-litur.html

What is next is to explain Transubstantiation relationship in a way not to scare people. The reality of Transubstantiation, in my opinion, is about the only way to keep Catholics in the pews. We need to put our collective finger in the ****. (CAF will not let me use the word for a structure that holds back water.) See story about a Dutch boy who saved his country. pantheon.org/articles/l/little_dutch_boy.html

I think the world is also in need of us living a life transformed by the Gospel, a life of living our faith in joy even in the midst of our struggles. Pope Francis opens Evangelii Gaudium by saying, “The joy of the gospel fills the hearts and lives of all who encounter Jesus…With Christ joy is constantly born anew. In this Exhortation I wish to encourage the Christian faithful to embark upon a new chapter of evangelization marked by this joy…” --I think the world also needs this and that’s what will get people into the pews. Our joy and our love and our care and our sincere interest in others is what is needed. So often one encounters Christians, to use the words of Pope Francis, “whose lives seem like Lent without Easter” and that doesn’t make Christianity seem like anything worth having. It was the Resurrection, it was Easter that transformed the apostles (of course we shouldn’t forget the Holy Spirit at Pentecost). Our joy and our peace and our love are what will attract others and make them interested in the faith that gives it to us.

Eucharistic adoration is needed to give us strength, to restore us. It is there that we can avoid all the noise and distractions of the world and can quiet our mind and hear God’s voice, and feel his love for us and it is this that allows us to go back out into the world with joy and with peace and with love ready to evangelize with our actions if not our words. Those around us should feel our love for them as we feel Christ’s love for us in Eucharistic adoration. If the people in the pews around us don’t see our joy and don’t feel our love for them are they going to believe we are transformed by Christ and the Gospel? Are they going to believe that Transubstantiation is real?

Bottom line–I think if there are not people in the pews–it’s not because they didn’t hear the word Transubstantiation–but rather it’s because I wasn’t transformed by the Gospel message and they didn’t see Jesus in me–or perhaps I should say I didn’t see Jesus in them and so I didn’t treat them as I should.

The peace of Christ,
Mark**