What kind of Mass was this?

[convert999]

We just returned from traveling. I found a church to go to on masstimes. It was a suburban church in a wealthy neighborhood. We went to the 9:30 Sunday Mass. The music consisted of incredibly insipid praise songs, but that’s a matter of personal opinion. What surprised me was that the first two readings were read by children no more than 10 years old. They read well but I couldn’t hear/understand a word they said, and there were no missals in the pew. After the gospel was read, the priest called all the children present up to the altar, where they sat around in a circle. He gave a “children’s message” as we used to call it when we were Protestants. Then the kids went back to their seats, and we discovered that this “obey your Mom and Dad” type of message was the homily. They left out some words in the creed (e.g. “for us and for our salvation” leaving out “men”) but it was essentially the Nicene creed not the Apostles Creed. Everything was done very quickly, especially the Consecration. Something that really bothered me was that after the Eucharist, the priest wiped out the cup (sorry, I don’t know all the words) just like you would dry dishes at home, then just threw the cloth in a heap on the altar instead of folding it nicely as our priest at home does. The whole thing seemed so, well, casual and irreverent. My husband suggested that this might have been a Children’s Mass, but there were a lot of adults there too. What is your take on this? I am not a person who goes around looking for “liturgical abuse” (for one thing, I don’t know enough ) but this whole Mass left me feeling depressed. Is this some special kind of Mass I don’t know about?

 

[laszlo]

As from your description this is a typical suburban children’s Mass. Except for the alleged changing of the words in the creed, which may be inadvertent mistake, I do not see liturgical abuse.

Unfortunately (for us) , this is better than the Mass in many wealthy suburban parishes around Chicago.

This described Mass is the left side of the balance between the sacred (entirely set aside to God) and open to everyone. Both side has its merits.

 

[Saintlucy]

This was definately a children’s Mass. Not my cup of tea, I’m afraid. It’s the unintelligable readings that I can’t stand.

Reading this post got me thinking. I could be wrong but I can’t find an order of Mass for children in any language other than English. What will happen when the new translation comes in? I know that we have to replace our current hymnals because the parts of the Mass we sing now don’t translate faithfully the Latin text. Will there be specific children’s Masses? Will these be said with the permission of the Ordinary?

The only thing I could find after hours of searching is from the Oregon Catholic Press (OCP) website: www.ocp.org/articles/1227 However I am in the UK and can’t find anything.

I quote:

Directory for Masses with Children and the Revised Roman Missal
In liturgies where the DMC is followed and children are in the majority, (my emphasis) a celebrant can still choose from the introductory elements of the Mass and, at times, eliminate the penitential act and/or Gloria all together (40). In the new Order of Mass there are textual changes in Form A and B of the penitential act, including the additions to the Confiteor mentioned above. As an introductory element with children, a penitential act would seem appropriate during Lent, the Gloria during the Christmas season and the rite of sprinkling during the Easter season. The priest is also permitted to choose from the Roman Missal presidential prayers more suited to children and may even adapt the text of those prayers to the needs of children (50–51). Children are encouraged to learn the Nicene Creed, but the Directory allows for the use of the Apostles’ Creed when a creed is desired in Masses with children (49).

If a Mass for children is said in Church on a Sunday, it follows that the majority of the congregation are always going to be adults. So should Masses for children only be said in schools? I’m getting more and more confused.

 

[convert999]

I wish the church’s webpage had included the information that this was a Children’s Mass. Personally, I think children would be better served by learning and participating in the regular Mass, but that’s this old-fashioned mom talking.

 

[929dad]

If the priest had used one of the Eucharistic prayers for Masses with Children, you would have known. They are pretty different than the 4 that we’re used to hearing.

Having children proclaim the scriptures is allowed, I think. Though it wouldn’t be my choice unless they were really skilled and practiced, it’s not an abuse. Neither is not having a missal in front of you. Most of my adult life, I’ve been in parishes where this is the norm.

 

[revert_jen]

As from your description this is a typical suburban children’s Mass. Except for the alleged changing of the words in the creed, which may be inadvertent mistake, I do not see liturgical abuse.

Well, I think that the changing the words of the creed was not inadvertent, since this has been a hot button issue. The USCCB has in the past requested that this change be allowed, and the CDW has refused. Now, it’s just disobedient.

Another issue I see are that people are not randomly allowed in the sanctuary during Mass. If the kids just came up to the front of the pews and the priest went out to meet them, that is OK. But if they actually came up into the sanctuary, I’m pretty sure that’s not OK.

The last thing is that the Homily is supposed to be about the Mass, and preferably about the readings.
GIRM #65:

…[The Homily] should be an exposition of some aspect of the readings from Sacred Scripture or of another text from the Ordinary or from the Proper of the Mass of the day and should take into account both the mystery being celebrated and the particular needs of the listeners.

So if the priest tied in the “obey your parents” message with the readings or another part of the Mass, it is OK, if not, not. Priests don’t just get to talk about whatever they want, it has to be related to the Mass. (Or rather, in my experience, they can get away with talking about whatever they want only if they also talk about the readings as well. ) Naturally, since this Mass, had a lot of kids in it, we wouldn’t be looking at intricate theological reasoning, but the readings have messages that can be understood by all but the very youngest children.

As far as I know, there are no special requirements to fold the purificator after purifying the chalice after Communion, but I’m not an expert.

I’m with Saintlucy, in that I think it’s never going to be appropriate to have a children’s Mass as a regular Sunday Mass, since kids wouldn’t ever be in the majority. But that doesn’t mean nobody does it…

Here is a link to a long (but good!) article about Children’s Masses, which includes a link to the Directory for Masses with Children and discusses other relevant documents:

adoremus.org/1103ChildrenLiturgy.html

I bet the experience makes you more grateful for your normal parish!

–Jen

 

[Saintlucy]

I wish the church’s webpage had included the information that this was a Children’s Mass. Personally, I think children would be better served by learning and participating in the regular Mass, but that’s this old-fashioned mom talking.

I agree but I’m afraid that I am sometimes looked on as an old fogey in this respect.

 

[laszlo]

Well, I think that the changing the words of the creed was not inadvertent, since this has been a hot button issue. The USCCB has in the past requested that this change be allowed, and the CDW has refused. Now, it’s just disobedient.

Another issue I see are that people are not randomly allowed in the sanctuary during Mass. If the kids just came up to the front of the pews and the priest went out to meet them, that is OK. But if they actually came up into the sanctuary, I’m pretty sure that’s not OK.

The last thing is that the Homily is supposed to be about the Mass, and preferably about the readings.

Let nothing disturb you; nothing frighten you. All things are passing. God never changes. Patience obtains all things. Nothing is wanting to him who possesses God. God alone suffices.

–St. Teresa of Avila

 

[Digitonomy]

Directory for Masses with Children and the Revised Roman Missal
In liturgies where the DMC is followed and children are in the majority, (my emphasis) a celebrant can still choose…

If a Mass for children is said in Church on a Sunday, it follows that the majority of the congregation are always going to be adults. So should Masses for children only be said in schools? I’m getting more and more confused.

I’m not going to quote official documents (which may shed light on this), but I’ll simply apply some reasoning here.

A Sunday mass is not always going to be majority adult. If a special mass is scheduled at 2:30 in the afternoon for children for whatever reason, I would not expect a heavy turnout of adults except for those related to the children.

If a mass on whatever day is designated for children, and all the planning is done accordingly, I don’t think it’s fair to expect the priest to take attendance just before the start of mass to see if adults outnumber children by a couple heads.

I do agree with you that it would probably be best to try to schedule children’s masses at times that are less likely to draw large numbers of normal congregants. However, how that is achieved may vary quite a bit, and a pastor may decide that other considerations have a greater priority in scheduling such masses.

 

[Saintlucy]

I’m not going to quote official documents (which may shed light on this), but I’ll simply apply some reasoning here.

A Sunday mass is not always going to be majority adult. If a special mass is scheduled at 2:30 in the afternoon for children for whatever reason, I would not expect a heavy turnout of adults except for those related to the children.

If a mass on whatever day is designated for children, and all the planning is done accordingly, I don’t think it’s fair to expect the priest to take attendance just before the start of mass to see if adults outnumber children by a couple heads.

I do agree with you that it would probably be best to try to schedule children’s masses at times that are less likely to draw large numbers of normal congregants. However, how that is achieved may vary quite a bit, and a pastor may decide that other considerations have a greater priority in scheduling such masses.

In our diocese in most parishes we only have one main Mass on a Sunday. This was the bishop’s wish when he was elected; he wanted to bring the congregation together. We used to have a 9 O clock Mass for young families and 10:30 Sung. So we have a Saturday evening Mass which is low with a few hymns and the Sung Mass on Sunday morning which is the best attended. Many parishioners go on Saturday evening once a month because they don’t like the children’s Mass. It feels a bit like when you have the family to dinner but a lot are missing. I’m droning on a bit now, aren’t I

 

[The_Old_Medic]

I would say that this was a “Children’s Mass”. I have been to many of them, and there are always lots of adults present too. Not just parents/grandparents, but single adults, married couples without children, etc.

Just because something is “different” does not make it wrong.

Did it occur to you to ask anyone what was going on? or did you just walk away, believing that this was something “bad”, and let it go at that?

 

[Little_One0307]

As from your description this is a typical suburban children’s Mass. Except for the alleged changing of the words in the creed, which may be inadvertent mistake, I do not see liturgical abuse.

Unfortunately (for us) , this is better than the Mass in many wealthy suburban parishes around Chicago.

This described Mass is the left side of the balance between the sacred (entirely set aside to God) and open to everyone. Both side has its merits.

Give me the Sacred Mass every single time. I am not aware that there as a balence, as every Sacred Mass is open to everyone.

The Mass that the OP posted is appalling to read. I have seen Children’s Masses that are done sacredly and not with the haste and carelessness that was portrayed in the OP. I am for Children’s Masses provided they are said reverently and are done in a sacred way.

As to throwing down the purificator carelessly, I am all for folding it. Technically can it be considered a vessel of the altar?

And no, no one is allowed in the sanctuary unless you are excepted to be there by GIRM. As to changing the creed, I do not agree with that. I think the reason they always insist on deleting the word men, is becuase some people in the church hate exclusive language. The things that are done in the name of political correcteness.

Little One0307

 

[cothrige]

I made the unholy mistake one time of stating on a thread here at CA that I didn’t like the Children’s liturgies. I felt that they were condescending to the children, who in many cases are more mature and intelligent than the adults present, and I also have a problem with the paraphrased kind of rewording of the Mass texts and readings. Of course, as soon as I did this all the children’s Mass supporters came thronging in to decry on how I could dare say I don’t like a Mass. How evil, how sacrilegious, how, well, just how?!? I had to laugh at the irony of all the people defending the beauty of paraphrases in turn insisting on a hyper-literal understanding of my usage of the words ‘don’t like.’ I can only imagine that, given this point of view, the Church itself attacked the scriptures by not liking the translations of Wyclif, Tynsdale and Luther.

Needless to say, I still don’t like children’s Masses. They dumb down the sacred, IMHO, and don’t help children see the beauty in the Mass itself.

 

[powerlinemom]

We occasionally have a children’s Mass - maybe once per quarter or so at the most. Usually the only thing that is different is that children do the readings, and the children’s choir does the music. They have a kids version of the Gloria that they sing, and the Alleluia prior to the Gospel reading is that terrible “Halle-halle-halle, loo-ooo-ya”, but other than that, everything else about the Mass is the same. I’ve only seen our priest call the children to the front during the Homily once. The children sat on the floor between the first row of pews and the steps that go up to the altar area. His homily was still relevant to the gospel reading, but he tried to address the children a little more directly. All in all, I don’t mind them so much, except for the stupid music. I love to see the kids participating in the Mass, but I’d much rather hear them singing music that feels more appropriate to Mass and not a preschool graduation.

 

[damooster]

Well, I think that the changing the words of the creed was not inadvertent, since this has been a hot button issue. The USCCB has in the past requested that this change be allowed, and the CDW has refused. Now, it’s just disobedient.
–Jen

Hey Jen, do you happen to know where I can read about the USCCB really requesting these changes? I’ve been to a few parishes in my diocese that change the words but I had never heard that the USCCB actually approved of this.

Thanks.

 

[TheMc]

I see several problems here. First, the priest is supposedly being very casual and possibly sloppy. This is a terrible attitude to have during the liturgy.

Second: if people are changing the creed, that is serious, and the priest should be correcting that. These people messing with our church with their inclusive language have no place.

Also, the readings should be proclaimed in a clear voice. I wish I had a document quote to back me up on this one, but it seems like common sense.

Also, cothrige, they are condescending to children. You are so right.

 

[thequeen]

I wish the church’s webpage had included the information that this was a Children’s Mass. Personally, I think children would be better served by learning and participating in the regular Mass, but that’s this old-fashioned mom talking.

Hey I am with you convert999 I personally believe that if you want your children to learn about the mass you need to take them to a regular mass not some watered down childrens version same go for if you want children to learn how to behave at mass you take them to mass a regular mass.

 

[Sherry_G]

I wish the church’s webpage had included the information that this was a Children’s Mass. Personally, I think children would be better served by learning and participating in the regular Mass, but that’s this old-fashioned mom talking.

I agree. Children are able to learn very quickly. Much more so if they are exposed to the beauty of the Mass in full. This trend toward “dumbing down” most everything these days seems quite unneccesary to me.