What makes a book immoral?

[Baelor]

That is an amazing statement. Of the tens of thousands of new books published every year, you would not judge them on an individual basis? Would you say the same about movies?

This is a total strawman. In no way did minion suggest that he would not judge individual works of art.

 

[edwest2]

I think you should let the poster I addressed speak for himself.

Best,
Ed

 

[Baelor]

I think you should let the poster I addressed speak for himself.

Minion did so unambiguously:

minion:

My sole indicator for this, is when vices are portrayed as virtues.

You responded as follows:

edwest2:

Of the tens of thousands of new books published every year, you would not judge them on an individual basis? Would you say the same about movies?

That makes no sense. Minion clearly stated that the sole criterion was whether vices were portrayed as virtues. The judgment on an individual basis will consequently be determined by whether the book portrays vices as virtues. I fail to see any obscurity.

 

[LoveMyHeart]

A sa writer, that is extremely shallow, narrow minded and, from a literary standpoint, dull. Not everyone is a wonderful little saint who’s going to repent. That’s not how life is. Fiction isn’t just about fulfilling your fantasies for a perfect Catholic Utopia. It’s about portraying believable and realistic scenarios as well. Since when is a good immoral for portraying real life? Besides, such a ridiculous criteria limits ones list of acceptable literature to only Christian or Christian based literature, since many religions, cultures and historical eras of the world do not or did not have the same criteria of sin.

You are entitled to your opinion. In my opinion I have given what I believe is based on my opinion from experiences in reading materials that contain filfth and that don’t have a satisfactory resolution to the character’s sins or immoralities. My opinion is not shallow, narrow minded nor doll. I never said everyone is a wonderful saint! Don’t put words in my mouth please. Thank you.

 

[Katarina90]

Yes it is. Your words, were that at the very least, a book’s purpose should be to show the characters repentance. That shows a narrow view of what literature is suppose to be. Books aren’t suppose to be just about showing people go to Heaven. Real life isn’t like that, sorry. Showing someone get away with murder, literally, is just a fact.

I find it laughable how everyone in this thread first spouts about how all sins and immoralities must be resolved or brought to repentance, then turn around and claim they’ve said no such thing. Just like CAF!

 

[SGTTOM]

Regardless of who its about I think a book or at least a novel should have a moral point to it. Like someone else said vices shouldn’t be shown as virtues or the other way around. Sexual parts aren’t bad necessarily but they shouldn’t become erotica which many are. Explaining too much in regards to sex in a book is just unnecessary and provokes ones mind to wander to places it shouldn’t be at. In general I think the same about violence, gore doesn’t need to be explained in great detail either. There is simply no need for it.

In regards to the post above, there is no need for the good guy to win every time. When it becomes bad is when a person’s evil actions are shown to be acceptable on a moral basis. I also believe sin always leads to unhappiness on some level. Many people want to ignore this of course because they believe there way of thinking is correct. Of course they are mistaken. One of the great mistakes of modern media is its glorification of evil lifestyles. Sin never makes people happy, not in the long run at least. Anyhow there is nothing wrong with a book that doesn’t have a happy or good guy wins ending.

 

[MrSylvester]

Another indication which is very useful as to whether the intention is good or not, and which adds on to what others have said, is if* the bad guy or evil in the film is depicted as such and is punished* in the end. The the evil gets away or doesn’t get defeated by the end of the book (or series, if it’s a series they should be defeated by the last book) then the aim of the story is often disordered.

I disagree. In my opinion, it’s not so much whether the villian wins or not that makes a work of fiction immoral but what it is supposed to leave you. In the Berserk anime, one of the main characters turns evil and does something so horrifyingly evil it’s can’t be described here. He wins and in the manga, he hasn’t gotten his comeuppance yet. And yet, no fan roots for him, nobody supports him because they all despise him for what he did.

In Death Note, Light Yagami kills people with his ‘magical’ note book. He is shown sympatethic at first, having a noble goal to rid the world of evil but it is shown that despite crime rates dropping because of him, he becomes mad with power, people are worshipping him as a god and in the end, he didn’t make people do good nor did he end evil. Death Note is supposed to make you think; whether Light Yagami is good or not is up to your own interpretation.

And while many anime have some immoral elements, they’re rather small (such as fanservice) and don’t get in the way usually of what it’s trying to say. I say usually because I avoid blatantly exploitative or immoral anime and books. In Song of Ice and Fire, there are some sex scenes which are borderline pornographic yet I continuereading the series not for the sex scenes but for the story which involves much more than lewd sex scenes. It’s epic, brutal, has great characters and tons of political intrigue that is really interesting.

In conclusion, I just think that if a work contains some elements that would seem immoral in the real world but are actually studied in the work itself, I don’t think it makes it immoral unless such behaviour is outright advocated in the book itself.