What makes a marriage invalid?

[MJJean]

Am I correct in understanding intentions matter, and are a part of consent? I was told intentions and consent were two entirely different things.

Intentions and consent are different, but go hand in hand. Using my case as an example, my ex and I never intended permanence of fidelity when we “married”. I was talking about a future divorce with a friend hours before the ceremony and we were both seeing other people during dating and within the first month of the “marriage”. What we consented to, due to our intentions, was not a marriage as taught by the Church. We were consenting to a civil contract and nothing more.

To enter into a valid marriage one must understand what marriage is, intend to actually be married, and consent to marriage.

 

[Gorgias]

Contraception per se is not grounds for a decree of nullity.

A permanent intention against children, present before the marriage, is a very specific thing. And of course would have to be provable in the external forum.

So, let’s give it expression with a hypothetical situation that’s not too uncommon: at the rehearsal dinner, the bride- and groom-to-be are heard to be proclaiming loudly that they’re going to make certain that they’re not starting a family for five years, until after he passes the bar and she finishes her Ph.D. – two kids, one boy and one girl, and after that, no more! Two kids is more than enough, and then he’s getting snipped (or, she’s getting her tubes tied)!

Would we say that they have a permanent intention against children? Given that, after “getting their boy and girl,” they plan on returning to a contraceptive mentality?

 

[1ke]

Would we say that they have a permanent intention against children?

No.

 

[spunjalebi]

Intentions and consent are different, but go hand in hand. Using my case as an example, my ex and I never intended permanence of fidelity when we “married”. I was talking about a future divorce with a friend hours before the ceremony and we were both seeing other people during dating and within the first month of the “marriage”. What we consented to, due to our intentions, was not a marriage as taught by the Church. We were consenting to a civil contract and nothing more.

To enter into a valid marriage one must understand what marriage is, intend to actually be married, and consent to marriage.

If I used my own case, when my husband and I married we were looking forward to starting a family within a year and were already thinking about looking for a house. Unfortunately our finances took a hit when my husband lost his job, and that delayed all of those plans. We just kept experiencing more hardships along the way. I think for me, the main reason why I put pressure of my husband is because I felt guilty as a Catholic for not having children and there is strong pressure to have them no matter what. I also received some criticism that my marriage isn’t really valid and I’m fornicating because he contracepts.

I know for a fact at our wedding, and well before our wedding, my husband has wanted children but life hasn’t been kind to us. The situation Gorgias mentioned sounds like a lot of people I’ve heard about, where they have “plans” and then things happen for better or worse and they change their minds. I don’t think changing your mind in response to life circumstances invalidates a marriage. It certainly makes things tougher, but it doesn’t mean your marriage never happened.

 

[1ke]

I think for me, the main reason why I put pressure of my husband is because I felt guilty as a Catholic for not having children and there is strong pressure to have them no matter what.

Pressure from whom? Your families? The Church does not pressure anyone to have children at any specific time.

I am sorry you continue to experience difficulties, if you and your husband desire children soon, perhaps you should think about the fact that no time will ever be the perfect time and weigh the factors to see if despite it being non-ideal whether or not it is possible.

I also received some criticism that my marriage isn’t really valid and I’m fornicating because he contracepts.

Neither of these things is true.

I shouldn’t be shocked that people have no boundaries and would actually discuss your sex life with you. I suggest you stop talking about your intimate marriage details, it’s not anyone’s business.

 

[spunjalebi]

Pressure from whom? Your families? The Church does not pressure anyone to have children at any specific time.

I am sorry you continue to experience difficulties, if you and your husband desire children soon, perhaps you should think about the fact that no time will ever be the perfect time and weigh the factors to see if despite it being non-ideal whether or not it is possible.

Neither of these things is true.

I shouldn’t be shocked that people have no boundaries and would actually discuss your sex life with you. I suggest you stop talking about your intimate marriage details, it’s not anyone’s business.

The people making these criticisms are the ones asking ME why I don’t have a child, and then are telling me these things. I’m not the one making these decisions, my husband is. Perhaps I should get a divorce to find myself a better man who will be a better Catholic? That’s the line of reasoning going on. I’ve been told I have grounds for an annulment, without even asking once about the validity of my marriage.

I see this a lot with Catholics. It is often when I attend marriage-based enrichment programs at church with my husband, we find ourselves to be one of the few couples who isn’t remarried after a divorce. It seems you can justify an annulment from anything these days, and as a convert that angers and disgusts me at the same time.

 

[1ke]

The people making these criticisms are the ones asking ME why I don’t have a child,

As I said, not surprise people lack boundaries and common decency these days. Reality television has taught people to be voyeurs.

When they ask, you simply say that it’s not their business. You seem to believe you owe them some explanation-- you do not.

and then are telling me these things.

Right, which they can’t do if you don’t play their game of “share your intimate details”. Repeat after me: “I’m sorry, that is personal between me and my husband. I’m shocked you would ask such a question.” Change subject.

I’m not the one making these decisions, my husband is. Perhaps I should get a divorce to find myself a better man who will be a better Catholic?

Not sure where that came from. I don’t believe anyone suggested that.

That’s the line of reasoning going on. I’ve been told I have grounds for an annulment, without even asking once about the validity of my marriage.

Told by ignorant people who don’t know anything.

If your husband truly has a permanent intention against children, then perhaps that is true. But you have said the two of you do want children. So, I take you at your word.

It seems you can justify an annulment from anything these days, and as a convert that angers and disgusts me at the same time.

Many things “seem” one way when in reality they are another.

 

[spunjalebi]

Then why is the annulment rate in the US so high? People can only get annulments if they have a divorce. Are there really so many Catholics who are going to the altar without knowing what they are doing? It seems mind-boggling. How in the world can there be so many people getting married without understanding what they are doing?

You may not have suggested the whole better Catholic thing, but it certainly appears to be the attitude of many traditional Catholics. I think you’d be surprised.

 

[1ke]

Then why is the annulment rate in the US so high? People can only get annulments if they have a divorce. Are there really so many Catholics who are going to the altar without knowing what they are doing? It seems mind-boggling. How in the world can there be so many people getting married without understanding what they are doing?

You may not have suggested the whole better Catholic thing, but it certainly appears to be the attitude of many traditional Catholics. I think you’d be surprised.

First, in the US parish pastors screen out those wtihout a case. So, those that go to the tribunal actually have grounds and are likely to be accepted.

Many that go to the diocese are lack of form (which isn’t technically a decree of nullity) and Ligamen cases. Invalidity is not in doubt in these cases.

Still more cases are from Protestants converting to the faith or marrying a Catholic, and the disarray of teaching these people receive regarding the “ok-ness” of divorce and remarriage is wide and deep and many of them did indeed have invalid marriages.

There are many complex reasons for the decrees of nullity we currently see, but the tribunals just simply handing them out like candy, willy-nilly isn’t really one of them.

 

[1ke]

I think you’d be surprised.

Appalled is the word you are looking for.

 

[MJJean]

If I used my own case, when my husband and I married we were looking forward to starting a family within a year and were already thinking about looking for a house. Unfortunately our finances took a hit when my husband lost his job, and that delayed all of those plans. We just kept experiencing more hardships along the way. I think for me, the main reason why I put pressure of my husband is because I felt guilty as a Catholic for not having children and there is strong pressure to have them no matter what. I also received some criticism that my marriage isn’t really valid and I’m fornicating because he contracepts.

I know for a fact at our wedding, and well before our wedding, my husband has wanted children but life hasn’t been kind to us. The situation Gorgias mentioned sounds like a lot of people I’ve heard about, where they have “plans” and then things happen for better or worse and they change their minds. I don’t think changing your mind in response to life circumstances invalidates a marriage. It certainly makes things tougher, but it doesn’t mean your marriage never happened.

Postponing children for a while until things improve and intending to never have children are two separate things. If he went into the marriage with the intention at the time of the ceremony to have children then that fulfills the “open to life” requirement.

And how could the marriage be invalid, as your friends say? The Church presumes all marriages valid unless proven otherwise.

Then why is the annulment rate in the US so high? People can only get annulments if they have a divorce. Are there really so many Catholics who are going to the altar without knowing what they are doing? It seems mind-boggling. How in the world can there be so many people getting married without understanding what they are doing?

You may not have suggested the whole better Catholic thing, but it certainly appears to be the attitude of many traditional Catholics. I think you’d be surprised.

I am in the process of converting and I am now an annulment stat. I was divorced and remarried 11 years ago. My husband was fallen away and didn’t return to the Church until last year. I came with him. Being raised Lutheran, I was taught that divorce was acceptable and did dissolve a marriage. Had someone told me that marriage was seriously for life I wouldn’t have done it!

Being part of a culture where half of all marriages fail, you don’t tend to really, truly, believe marriage is for life. “Til death do you part” and “Let no man put asunder” become some of those nice things people say but don’t really mean.

So, yeah, I’d say a lot of people here in the US who marry have no idea what they are getting into because the majority somewhere in their heads think that they have an out if they ever need it in the form of a divorce. If people don’t really and truly believe marriage is for life then they aren’t consenting to marriage. They are consenting to a civil contract and simulating marriage as taught by the Church.