What makes a parish worth sticking around?

[asd72]

I go to my geographic parish. Not perfect, but I am reluctant to parish shop. The low point was this song ‘I am the lord of the dance said he’ at Easter Vigil. I have relocated recently and it is hard. The people are so kind though, including Father.

I think I am going to incorporate worship at the cathedral and check our the local EF parish. That is a personal rather than a geographic parish.

I feel kind of shallow, but I also want to beable to bring family or friends if they ever wanted to come and for them to see beauty and reverence, not songs with lines like ‘it’s hard to dance with the devil on your back’

 

[Brendan_64]

We do not worship alone, we do not go along to get what we personally can for our own spiritual benefit. The whole purpose of Christian worship is based around a community, a fellowship of believers worshipping in communion with each other.

Once we start going through a list of points that we wish a parish to fulfill for our own personal needs before we decide which parish is ‘right’ for us, we lose the point of it all.

We should worship with our community, with the people around us. That community should be our family. It shouldn’t be about whether the priest or parish ‘measures up’ to our expectations of what it ought to be, we should worship in our local parish, no matter how imperfect the priest, parishioners, or even the liturgy may be.

It’s not just about the Mass, it’s about getting actively involved in parish life and supporting others in making the parish a success. The priest is just one small part of the parish, and parish life does not revolve around the homily he gives each Sunday.

 

[Joy2day]

The Mass - it must be generally free of liturgical abuse
The homily - it should touch on the grave issues that are part of our lives today such as:

• abortion, contraception, same-sex relations, euthanasia, etc.

Almost no parish priest will touch on these subjects at Mass. That is one reason why we are in big trouble today. However, if you happen to find a priest with the backbone to hit these subject in the homily, then you have found “a pearl of great price.” Stay there and encourage this brave priest with all your heart.

Yep, this would be interesting; there are some things they never mention (cause they’d get beaten up around the back by at least somebody in the parish). :slapfight::blackeye:

 

[Cat]

We do not worship alone, we do not go along to get what we personally can for our own spiritual benefit. The whole purpose of Christian worship is based around a community, a fellowship of believers worshipping in communion with each other.

Once we start going through a list of points that we wish a parish to fulfill for our own personal needs before we decide which parish is ‘right’ for us, we lose the point of it all.

We should worship with our community, with the people around us. That community should be our family. It shouldn’t be about whether the priest or parish ‘measures up’ to our expectations of what it ought to be, we should worship in our local parish, no matter how imperfect the priest, parishioners, or even the liturgy may be.

It’s not just about the Mass, it’s about getting actively involved in parish life and supporting others in making the parish a success. The priest is just one small part of the parish, and parish life does not revolve around the homily he gives each Sunday.

What an interesting topic!

My husband and I started attending our parish while we were still Protestant (we had been kicked out of our Evangelical Protestant church). We decided on the parish because it was right down the street from our house. So for us, the fact that the parish is close to our house is very important. We live in the neighborhood where our church is, and we like that.

But other than that, I tend to agree with the list that was in the article. We are fortunate that all of the parishes in our city have correct liturgy, thanks to strong bishops. And we have not yet had a priest that we didn’t love!

Brendan 64, I agree with you about community. I think there are times when people don’t fit into a parish because of the people, and I can’t say I blame them for looking for a place where they are a “better fit.” E.g., our parish has 7000 people, and most of them are fairly well-off and well-educated. My husband and I fit in; we certainly aren’t rich, but we both have good jobs and don’t worry about the day-to-day expenses. (We do worry about retirement funds, but so do a lot of other people!)

There are other parishes in our city where the majority of the people are not well-off or well-educated. I don’t think my husband and I would feel as comfortable there, although if one of these parishes was our assigned parish, we would strive to find a way to fit in.

There are three “ethnic” parishes in our city (Italian, Hispanic, and Polish). I played piano at the Italian parish for two years, and loved the people. But I’m not Italian and I can’t say that I’ve experienced life the way many of the 1st and 2nd generation Italian families have experienced life.

There is also a Latin Mass parish, and amazingly, I would fit in very well at this parish if it was just about the people. I am good friends with several people in that parish. I also like the music minister and respect his knowledge and skill. But it’s not just about the people.

At any rate, my point is that I think Catholics should look around a little if they are in a parish with people that they just can’t fit in with. It’s hard to be with a lot of people and still be all alone.

 

[Brendan_64]

There are other parishes in our city where the majority of the people are not well-off or well-educated. I don’t think my husband and I would feel as comfortable there.

Why not? Aren’t these people your neighbours as much as well-off, well-educated people are? Are they not also your brothers and sisters in Christ?

Once we start judging parishes and communities on the basis of their socio-economic fit with us then I really do think we have lost the whole point of Christian fellowship.

A parish community should not be viewed as some sort of social club where we want to mix with the ‘right’ sort of people, people more like ‘us’. Rich or poor, educated or uneducated, it should not matter one jot. All that is important is that we are a community of believers; that is what ought to bind us together as a community (not social class).

At any rate, my point is that I think Catholics should look around a little if they are in a parish with people that they just can’t fit in with. It’s hard to be with a lot of people and still be all alone.

Perhaps they should look then at themselves and ask themselves the question, “What can I do to adapt in order to fit in with the others in my community?” rather than look on the community as being the issue. That community might benefit from someone who has a different approach, different experiences, etc. We all have our part to play.

We are all God’s children, we are all brothers and sisters. We should not choose to segregate ourselves based on ‘social class’, race, ethnicity, etc.We are the universal Church and we ought to try to reflect Heaven here on Earth (and in Heaven there is no segregation).

 

[ccmcmg]

When we moved to the city, we thought a Catholic parish is a Catholic parish is a Catholic parish. The parish we had been in, we had been very involved, and the Priest followed the teachings, rituals, and rules of the Catholic Church to the letter.

We didn’t think twice, and joined the parish we were geographically obliged to join. However, it wasn’t long before we felt very uncomfortable. Many in leadership positions openly opposed Church teachings, and practiced liturgical abuses of grave manner. Even after visiting with the Diocesan office, things were not changed. (Using unapproved scripture, changing words to prayers such as the Our Father and Gloria for Mass, including by the Priest, no Eucharist tabernacle in the Church anywhere…it was basically in a closet in the back where you couldn’t see it, very unwelcoming community…when we prayed as the Church directed, we were chastised by parish members, incorrect Eucharist procedures, the 99.9% Catholic school served meat on Fridays during Lent, and much much more.) We were directed that we had to belong to this parish, plus things were NOT going to change. As the years went on, the politics behind much of this came to light, and helped drive us away. It broke my heart; we were very active and involved previously. I accept full responsibility for not being strong enough to change parishes and ‘stand up’ to the system, but now that we’ve returned to the Faith, we did some searching before joining.

Our 2nd nearest Parish and 3rd nearest Parish were both under consideration, and we went with the one 10 minutes (tops) from our house, as opposed to the 5 minutes one. How lucky are we to live so close to so many Catholic parishes?

Anyway, we chose our Parish for many reasons: No liturgical abuses (at least not large ones; none so far that I have seen); welcoming community (while standing in line for my first confession in 15 years, another woman was very welcoming and gracious to me), and others. There are great programs and I’m excited to enjoy them; however, we would not have to be members to participate. We joined after a few Masses, by speaking with the Priest after Mass; he asked what Parish we were coming from. I had barely uttered the name of it, and he said, “Of course.”

I believe we were led to this Parish by God. It wasn’t a whimsical decision; however, decisions we have made in the past, we believed to be ‘whimsical’ or on our own, and it became apparent later that there was a reason for those decisions, and we were led by God to it. Perhaps we were supposed to belong to that Parish for awhile, and we did make a difference, although one we couldn’t see.

I believe that we are where we belong…a very Catholic parish, traditional but not ‘stuffy’. It’s a good fit for us, and I regret that we didn’t make this decision sooner!

 

[Tigg]

Oh, how times have changed. Many years ago, this thread topic would be irrelevant but no longer. As our DRE commented a while back, some parishes are so different from one another, one questions whether or not it is Catholic. As more and more priests take liberties with our liturgy they put their own particular stamp upon the worship and it’s hard to discern just what the problem is. So, like the Protestants, we are becoming nomads, wandering far and wide with more than just a little emphasis on the personality of the priest.

This happened fairly recently in our parish when a new priest was assigned and the difference was like night and day. One can perceive a shift in the winds; when we originally had a balance of both the vertical and horizontal dimensions of spirituality, our cross stood up-right, but as the focus on community has become stronger, we alas, have lost sight of the other equally important aspect. Now there are many complaints about the impiety and lack of reverence shown both to our building and to the Eucharist. Gum chewing in the communion line is now more visible, talking before and during Mass more common (and even texting,) less genuflection before the Tabernacle (we pat and hug each other, but neglect to say hello to Jesus) and the noise level rises as does the general bonhomie before each Mass. I think community very important and I love my fellow worshippers - we pray and socialize together, we are a family and yet I believe we are sometimes losing sight of the very Source and Summit of our liturgy - the vertical upon which the horizontal beam rests. If the vertical is present, so is excellent catechesis, good homilies and a deeply faith-filled experience. So both are important and if you can find a parish where the two are present, then you, indeed, are blessed.

 

[englishredrose]

The reason I continue to go to the parish church I do is because it within the parish I live in. How original is that idea

I have bumpy bits and said things but what family hasn’t but I wouldn’t dream of going anywhere else as on the electoral roll kind of basis other than where I live. Though when I lived the other side of town I continued with my ‘home church’ because it is ‘home’ in every sense of the word.

I been going since 1985 minus a few year gap where I didn’t go anywhere else. It don’t offer a lot in community living but it is what I know and as I keep saying it is ‘home’ for me.
and the local parish church:thumbsup:

 

[KellyPalmer]

Well, it turns out that my parish has almost nothing that I would choose as a reason to remain. In fact, I very seriously considered switching parishes. But when I though of switching, I received some very clear signs from the Holy Spirit that I should stay there. So, that’s why I stay. Could there be improvements there? Sure! Many of you would probably fall over if you attended Mass there. By I believe it is a valid Mass and Jesus is there. That’s the most important thing.

 

[Brendan_64]

I received some very clear signs from the Holy Spirit that I should stay there. So, that’s why I stay.

Priests come and go. You’ll be there long after your current priest has gone.

The reality is that in the short term a priest clearly has a lot more ability than that individual layperson to influence what happens in your parish, but over the long term an active lay person has a more influence than an individual priest does.

 

[angelic06]

For me it’s the community there and the fact that, despite what parish priest we have, the one constant is the community, it is our church.

Priests come and priests go, if we don’t like what one priest is doing I just think, “Long after you have been moved on, we will still be here”. Contrary to what some parish priests seem to think, it is our (the community’s) church and any priest is just a temporary resident carrying out a function until the bishop moves him on.

Absolutely right!

We should not look on our churches as some type of ‘service industry’ whereby if we do not get the service we personally like then we ‘shop around’ elsewhere.

Temporary resident? Ouch…

The parish belongs to God, not to the people. We are in Christ’s church, not our own. And some pastors can be there for very long periods of time (the one of the parish I grew up in was there the whole time I was there-twelve years since before I went to college, some time before my family arrived, and some time after I went to college). Consequently, he is as much a part of the parish as you.

Let’s not turn our priests into “disposables” or “resident aliens”, shall we?

 

[Reborn2013]

It would be God’s will that you attend Mass and support the parish in which you live. If things are not perfect perhaps you can take a more active part in parish life and have a good influence. This does not mean you cannot attend Mass and take part in activities in other parishes. You can even attend Mass twice on Sundays, one at your parish and one somewhere else. But your parish needs you so give it your support. Linus2nd

I am sorry but where is that in the bible? Or in catholic tradition? Many parishes are aligned on ethnic lines, and not geographical boundaries.

If this is a private revelation, please mention it as such.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Any thoughts?

I gave these scores 1 to 10 in importance, 10 being the most important:

Quality of the liturgy - 10
Effectiveness of pastor - ** 9**
Extent of lay involvement - n/a (It’s how they’re “involved” that matters)
Music - **9 **– just highly appropriate & prayerful;
Needn’t be a particular era or language or style

Parish programs - 3 – most important “program” to me is great
catechesis on all levels
Diversity of parishioners - 4
Proximity to home - 1 – I’ll travel very far
Mass times offered - 9 – must be at least one Mass per weekend intended for those who value a reverent, respectful
liturgy

Youth/young adult engagement - 3
Church architecture - **8 **– also no architectural agenda; must inspire,
But that covers a lot of ground for me

Other -

By category:
Church open abundantly for prayer 10
Outside of Mass

Double-digit confession opportunities 9
Every week, consistently

Priest(s) spiritually on fire: 10
Spiritual role model(s)

Priest(s) prepare homilies with 10
Dedication, effort, inspiration

Parishioners engaged with Catholic Spirituality: liturgy, prayer, devotion,
Knowledge of Church & spiritual resources 10

Most important reasons for me to leave a parish:
Bored, resentful parishioners who would rather not be there. (Major turnoff)
Burnt-out priest way overdue for sabbatical
Priest finds it more important to be an activist than a spiritual role model
Priest incapable of leading/directing, including putting reins on lay people on power trips
Lousy music/lousy musical effort
Church doors closed most of the time except for Mass
Very little commitment to spirituality among parishioners; very imbalanced commitment to political causes
More than half the parish ignorant about doctrine & not interested in learning it.

And lest anyone think the positive list ^ is not possible, two of the parishes I attend come close to meeting the above – each of them about 80% so.

 

[CB_Catholic]

There has been a lot of restructuring in our diocese and many of the smaller, ethnic parishes have merged or closed. As a result, there has been an increase in “church shopping”. Many of these people from ethnic parishes in my area live in my community so they have been checking out our parish. We have gained a lot of new members. I have heard many comments about why they chose our parish, and most of them have centered around friendliness, community, and activities. Haven’t heard a comment on the liturgy or music. We also have a school, but I don’t think that is a major factor as non-parishoners can attend.

One comment against us was our size-we are the largest in the diocese, and when one comes from a small ethnic parish where people have known each other for generations and switch to a very large parish, people tend to feel lost. One lady complained that no one welcomed her and listened to her problems (we do have greeters) so we were unfriendly. That didn’t really bother me, because at a parish of our size, with 7 Masses on the weekend, how are you supposed to know when someone is new?? But the point is, people seem to be looking at friendliness and community a lot.

I want a decent liturgy, but I also want to feel as if I belong, and can get involved in parish
life, and I like a parish that reaches out to the wider community. I want to be involved in evangelization and outreach and I want a parish that will provide opportunities for service.

So I am pretty satisfied with my parish. The liturgies are orthodox, the music is ok, the preaching is good, and there are plenty of opportunities to serve Christ by serving others.

 

[Philomeena]

It would be God’s will that you attend Mass and support the parish in which you live. If things are not perfect perhaps you can take a more active part in parish life and have a good influence. This does not mean you cannot attend Mass and take part in activities in other parishes. You can even attend Mass twice on Sundays, one at your parish and one somewhere else. But your parish needs you so give it your support. Linus2nd

This!!! Beautifully said. For me, my parish is truly my spiritual home and that means the Body of Christ present in the congregation are my family. Many times that family is dysfunctional but I would no sooner leave it than I would my own flesh and blood. I have lived through some of the deepest pain at the hands of my fellow parishioners and yet I still worship and serve here. It is not perfect anywhere.

 

[Brendan_64]

Temporary resident? Ouch…

The parish belongs to God, not to the people. We are in Christ’s church, not our own. And some pastors can be there for very long periods of time (the one of the parish I grew up in was there the whole time I was there-twelve years since before I went to college, some time before my family arrived, and some time after I went to college). Consequently, he is as much a part of the parish as you.

Let’s not turn our priests into “disposables” or “resident aliens”, shall we?

Some priests can be there for a long time, but most are only there for a few years before being moved on. Bishops move them around depending on the perceived needs in the diocese. Most priests will get 10 years if they’re lucky, but probably much less (usually 3 to 5 years in our diocese). Parishioners are the one who remain, most for many decades, in the same parish. Priests come and priests go.

Some priests however do seem to behave as if they think that it is **their **parish rather the parish of the people of the community. Some come with an agenda (be it liberal or traditional) and try to make their stamp on the parish accordingly. But regardless of that, any changes the priest might make (unless they are fully embraced by the community) are usually only temporary, and last only as long as he is there. In the long term, active parishioners have a lot more influence on a parish than even the most strident of parish priests. Some priests recognise this, others do not.