What makes a religion pagan exactly?

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Since the word “religion” means to bind to God, any belief system that does not bind to God is pagan.
Pls tell me what dictionary says that. The definitions I have found both in bound dictionaries and online ones basically say a belief in Gods or gods. Another says religion is a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.

Lets be honest and complete here. :tsktsk:
 
Pls tell me what dictionary says that. The definitions I have found both in bound dictionaries and online ones basically say a belief in Gods or gods. Another says religion is a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.

Lets be honest and complete here. :tsktsk:
The word ‘religion’ is from the latin, from roots meaning ‘to bind again’ or ‘to reconnect’. ‘Ligio’ is the same root we find in ‘ligature’ meaning binding or connection (and also commonly meaning ‘marriage’ in latin).

This is commonly interpreted to mean that religion is work that binds the human and divine together. This meaning originated among the Pagan Romans.

Etymology isn’t the same as definition, but etymology is often useful in understanding the background and context of a word. To limit understanding of words to dictionary definitions is seldom complete.
Ian
 
Heathen and pagan mean precisely the same thing. both are from roots meaning ‘of the countryside’ - heathen is from germanic roots, pagan from latin.
Oh their roots are certainly the same. I’ve just always heard them in both verbal and written formed used to apply to different things.
Shinto and Celtic religions both had/have definite specific deities, such as Amaterasu, the Shinto Sun Goddess.
You are correct about Shinto having more specific dieties Shinto is a hard fit.

For the Celts though, no they really didn’t have dieties in the way that the Greeks had dieties. Dagdha, Danna and Lugh weren’t so much celestial beings as powerful ancestral/totem beings. The Tuatha d’Dannan were not a pantheon. They were a great people who conquered Ireland and were apparently absurdly honorable and chivalric.

A better example would have been the Norse who while basically Shamanic did posses a rather well defined Cosmology and pantheon. Though there is some evidence that this patheon was actually an over rigid misinterpretation of the Celtic ancestor spirits. Who can say though?
As does Shinto, and, functionally, all tribal religion, such as that of the Navaho or central Asian ‘Shamanic’ tribes.
Again Shinto is a hard fit. Though it became more elementally defined as confusianism, Taoism and Buddhism influenced it. Its core concepts though are primitive.

As to shamanic practices I think I’ll disagree. Shamanic religions often have rather inscrutable and vague beliefs in terms of cosmology. Take the Cherokee for instance sometimes God created the world sometimes Coyote did and sometimes Raven did. Sometimes it seems that in some places Shamanic belief is no more complex than a simple collection of localized legends and stories.
Some Pagan religions have the idea of a single ‘first cause’ but really no non-monotheistic religions contain the idea of a single personal deity who created all things. No heathen religions have the idea of a single omnipotent being.
Not so. The Apache (The One Who Lives Above), Chelan (The Great Chief Above) and the Chinook (who have Talapas) just to name three Native nations have all powerful creators.

The Dogon of Mali had a supreme diety named Amma (though their creation story is rather grusome). Ethiopia had Wak. Amongst the Bantu is the legend of Nzame and all powerful creator. (who is actually a Triune god like the Christian God). I could go on but you get the idea.
Heathens don’t describe the world in human terms they try to understand how humans are to interact with the world around them.
Likewise ancient Greek Paganism.
No the Greek pantheon is one based on human traits not understanding human traits based on nature. The Greek gods are more or less humans with really awesome powers. They do not possess higher principles or ideals than their humanity.
**The Hindu believe in a central all-knowing, all-powerful, all-present god-head. **
Though this all-mind type godhead is in no way a ‘person’, and bears no resemblance to the idea of ‘God’ in monotheist scripture.
Never meant to imply that the Indian view of a triune godhead was the same the Christian version nevertheless it is a triune god. Hindu trinity is a single god who exists in three independant aspects. At a theological level Hindu has more in common with Christianity than with typical Pagan beliefs.
 
In my young days anything not catholic was pagan notice I didn’t say anti, but they were called pagan religions not pagan people.
Like pagan doctrines it was more directed at the doctrines.
We didn’t consider if they were not for us then against us, just astray or not in communion.
That is why we could marry anyone we wished because we believed we could never lose our faith by marriage we were baptised to the faith, neccessary to stay in the grace of the Church.

Heathens were not even a religion. They were the atheists of today.

If we were speaking of headhunters in Africa or cannibals it was not called a religion:eek: as it is thought of today.This was very heathen and not a religion, it would have been called demonism and worshipping Satan but then we did not give Satan the status of being called a “god” that would have been 10 story levels too high for him, from the bottom of hell the middle of the earth center core.

The heathens were the ones without any scruples.
Dessert
 
**For the Celts though, no they really didn’t have dieties in the way that the Greeks had dieties. **

They certainly did. In the Romano-Celtic period, Celts had no problem at all identifying their own Gods with those of Rome; they were viewed - by Celts - as equivalent.

**Dagdha, Danna and Lugh weren’t so much celestial beings as powerful ancestral/totem beings. **

Powerful ancestral/totem beings are deities, in polytheism. Deity is a job description, not a specific type of being, and deity is certainly never limited to the celestial in any Pagan system.

The Tuatha d’Dannan were not a pantheon. They were a great people who conquered Ireland and were apparently absurdly honorable and chivalric.

There are no modern Celticists who think the Tuatha De were an actual historical people. The monkish authors of the Book of Invasions followed a common practice of reducing myth to history, especially since they wanted to preserve their old tales while keeping their ecclesiastical bosses content.

Modern Celtic studies universally regards the Tuatha De Danann as the ‘Gods’ of the Gaelic Celts.

As to shamanic practices I think I’ll disagree. … Sometimes it seems that in some places Shamanic belief is no more complex than a simple collection of localized legends and stories.

The thing to remember is that polytheistic religions don’t generally depend on uniform ‘beliefs’. Stories vary from one time and place to the next, and that doesn’t bother anyone - nobody expects them to be consistent, because myth isn’t history. Even Greek myth was never consistent from one time and place to another.

**Not so. The Apache (The One Who Lives Above), Chelan (The Great Chief Above) and the Chinook (who have Talapas) just to name three Native nations have all powerful creators. **

I think you’d have trouble demonstrating that those ideas existed before they met the Jesuits. American Indian lore has been vastly deformed by contact with monotheism.

There are/have been Pagan religions that mention a ‘supreme’ deity, but, universally, that deity is never the single object of worship, nor is it considered the only manifestation of the divine. All those systems are polytheistic.

No the Greek pantheon is one based on human traits not understanding human traits based on nature.

How can human nature be different from nature-nature?

Never meant to imply that the Indian view of a triune godhead was the same the Christian version never the less it is a triune god. Nevertheless the Hindu trinity is a single god who exists in three independant aspects.

No, it isn’t. The brahman isn’t a god. Shiva and vishnu are not ‘aspects’ of some other single ‘god’

Ian
 
The word ‘religion’ is from the latin, from roots meaning ‘to bind again’ or ‘to reconnect’. ‘Ligio’ is the same root we find in ‘ligature’ meaning binding or connection (and also commonly meaning ‘marriage’ in latin).

This is commonly interpreted to mean that religion is work that binds the human and divine together. This meaning originated among the Pagan Romans.

Etymology isn’t the same as definition, but etymology is often useful in understanding the background and context of a word. To limit understanding of words to dictionary definitions is seldom complete.
Ian
No argument, but dictionary definitions is the norm that people go by. When somebody doesn’t understand the meaning of a word, they look it up in the dictionary.
 
No argument, but dictionary definitions is the norm that people go by. When somebody doesn’t understand the meaning of a word, they look it up in the dictionary.
Look up the word “truth” in an 1850’s dictionary and look it up today.
 
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