C
chevalier
Guest
In order to avoid watering things down and engaging in endless babble, perhaps I should lay it out in points:
Now my answers:
(Presumption: Not all sins against partners are cheating. Imprudent acts which don’t make more than a venial sin may still be cheating.)
I believe that intercourse is always cheating unless it’s rape. Blackmail isn’t always rape. I tend to have high standards for getting along with uninvited advances, especially if repeated. Therefore, getting along with unwanted advances out of fear of confrontation is still cheating in my eyes.
Internet or phone sexual conversations are still cheating because sexual enjoyment is sought and achieved. This same criterion applies to flirting. However, there are acts which I think may be sinful even if they aren’t enjoyed. First of all, voluntary sexual intercourse (anything else than rape or being mentally incapacitated through no fault of one’s own) will always be cheating, regardless of any reason people might bring up. The same goes for foreplay and open-mouth kissing (unless one would kiss family members this way, but I really doubt people do that). Closed mouth kissing may or may not be cheating, depending on the person’s cultural circumstances (some people greet family and friends with a kiss on the lips… which is not always prudent in the Western culture, but I wouldn’t call it cheating). I suppose rules for nudity can be left up to the couple, but while showing one’s naked body to others may defraud the partner, it isn’t cheating per se unless it’s “helped” by lustful teasing.
As for excuses: Of course, going to the doctor with a purely medical intention is not cheating. Even if a biologically sexual reaction occurs but is neither sought nor welcome, it still isn’t cheating. I don’t think people should be required always to seek same gender doctors.
Submitting to personal control by opposite gender officers isn’t cheating but in most cases will be imprudent. I wouldn’t call it cheating but I would have a problem with it. The same goes for skinny dipping in cross-gender company, nudism etc. One should respect himself or herself for his partner.
Rape precludes cheating if it really is rape - i.e. when the force or threat used is sufficient and when there is no enjoyment at any point. It must be clear that it’s forced sex and not sex in exchange for being left alone. This is a subtle difference and there are people who don’t get it. Again, rape includes such a tremendous pressure that people may be intimidated into behaving as if in normal intercourse.
Blackmail is not an excuse. It reduces guilt but doesn’t make innocence. There is still cheating. Sure, serious threats of great harm will break some people, but withholding benefits or blocking somoene’s career or spreading a bad rumour or whatever… Sorry, it doesn’t make an excuse.
Scenic play. In short, no way. Of course, pretending that something goes on while the screen goes black is not cheating. Perhaps maybe some kinds of hugging and dancing that wouldn’t normally be proper, if they are done without lust. Nudity is a tough issue, but I’d rather not classify it as cheating because it’s more of display than activity, unless there is some lustful behaviour added. However, getting naked for a sex scene and making it look real even if the act itself doesn’t happen, is extremely problematic and I surely wouldn’t tolerate it, let alone do it. Scenic kissing is cheating. If the partner gives permission, it’s either a sacrifice or his/her own lax morals and it’s probably still cheating. Without permission, it is cheating regardless of the circumstances. No one has to play such scenes. Even Catholics who are single should never play in kissing scenes unless they play with their partners, preferably spouses. I don’t understand how a Catholic could kiss a person without romantic or friendly affection without feeling guilt and confessing it. Even if not sin, it’s grossly imprudent and promiscuous.
Now what are your views?
- In your view, what makes cheating on the material level, i.e. what acts make cheating?
- What makes cheating on the material level, i.e. what frame of mind makes cheating?
- Do you believe that there are acts which are always cheating if voluntary (rape isn’t cheating, but maybe you think that sex with someone else than spouse can be justified by something else than force)?
- Do you believe that there are frames of mind which make cheating even if nothing happens physically?
- What is, in your opinion, the extent to which agreements matter? I.e. can couples (married, engaged, dating) agree that something is cheating and make it cheating for them, while something else isn’t cheating just because they allow each other to do it?
- If the material act is committed, what excuse do you accept?
Now my answers:
(Presumption: Not all sins against partners are cheating. Imprudent acts which don’t make more than a venial sin may still be cheating.)
I believe that intercourse is always cheating unless it’s rape. Blackmail isn’t always rape. I tend to have high standards for getting along with uninvited advances, especially if repeated. Therefore, getting along with unwanted advances out of fear of confrontation is still cheating in my eyes.
Internet or phone sexual conversations are still cheating because sexual enjoyment is sought and achieved. This same criterion applies to flirting. However, there are acts which I think may be sinful even if they aren’t enjoyed. First of all, voluntary sexual intercourse (anything else than rape or being mentally incapacitated through no fault of one’s own) will always be cheating, regardless of any reason people might bring up. The same goes for foreplay and open-mouth kissing (unless one would kiss family members this way, but I really doubt people do that). Closed mouth kissing may or may not be cheating, depending on the person’s cultural circumstances (some people greet family and friends with a kiss on the lips… which is not always prudent in the Western culture, but I wouldn’t call it cheating). I suppose rules for nudity can be left up to the couple, but while showing one’s naked body to others may defraud the partner, it isn’t cheating per se unless it’s “helped” by lustful teasing.
As for excuses: Of course, going to the doctor with a purely medical intention is not cheating. Even if a biologically sexual reaction occurs but is neither sought nor welcome, it still isn’t cheating. I don’t think people should be required always to seek same gender doctors.
Submitting to personal control by opposite gender officers isn’t cheating but in most cases will be imprudent. I wouldn’t call it cheating but I would have a problem with it. The same goes for skinny dipping in cross-gender company, nudism etc. One should respect himself or herself for his partner.
Rape precludes cheating if it really is rape - i.e. when the force or threat used is sufficient and when there is no enjoyment at any point. It must be clear that it’s forced sex and not sex in exchange for being left alone. This is a subtle difference and there are people who don’t get it. Again, rape includes such a tremendous pressure that people may be intimidated into behaving as if in normal intercourse.
Blackmail is not an excuse. It reduces guilt but doesn’t make innocence. There is still cheating. Sure, serious threats of great harm will break some people, but withholding benefits or blocking somoene’s career or spreading a bad rumour or whatever… Sorry, it doesn’t make an excuse.
Scenic play. In short, no way. Of course, pretending that something goes on while the screen goes black is not cheating. Perhaps maybe some kinds of hugging and dancing that wouldn’t normally be proper, if they are done without lust. Nudity is a tough issue, but I’d rather not classify it as cheating because it’s more of display than activity, unless there is some lustful behaviour added. However, getting naked for a sex scene and making it look real even if the act itself doesn’t happen, is extremely problematic and I surely wouldn’t tolerate it, let alone do it. Scenic kissing is cheating. If the partner gives permission, it’s either a sacrifice or his/her own lax morals and it’s probably still cheating. Without permission, it is cheating regardless of the circumstances. No one has to play such scenes. Even Catholics who are single should never play in kissing scenes unless they play with their partners, preferably spouses. I don’t understand how a Catholic could kiss a person without romantic or friendly affection without feeling guilt and confessing it. Even if not sin, it’s grossly imprudent and promiscuous.
Now what are your views?