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CeaselessMedik
Guest
I know it’s kind of by definition, but is that all the reasoning? Because he’s the creator, he is the best and gets dibs on everything?
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Trojan_Horse
Guest
Dear CeaselessMedik,
Well, He’s God because He has omnipotence and omniscience, since He created everything, so He obviously also knows everything about what He created. He also has omnipresence, because He has no physical form, and exists outside of time, because nothing can subject to time can create it.
As to why He is perfect:
So God is the First and the Last, which means He would get to set the standard for what is good/evil. He then put this law (natural law) on our hearts, and also revealed His laws to us when we fell to sin.
But what makes Him good beyond the fact that He, as the First and Last, gets to set the standard?
Well, simply put, He lets us choose if we want to follow His law or not. He can force us to do anything, but He doesn’t. He lets us choose. So even if He sets the standard for good (loving Him) and evil (not loving Him), He doesn’t force that standard on us, which I hope we can both agree is a good thing, in as much as tyranny is not good.
Well, He’s God because He has omnipotence and omniscience, since He created everything, so He obviously also knows everything about what He created. He also has omnipresence, because He has no physical form, and exists outside of time, because nothing can subject to time can create it.
As to why He is perfect:
So God is the First and the Last, which means He would get to set the standard for what is good/evil. He then put this law (natural law) on our hearts, and also revealed His laws to us when we fell to sin.
But what makes Him good beyond the fact that He, as the First and Last, gets to set the standard?
Well, simply put, He lets us choose if we want to follow His law or not. He can force us to do anything, but He doesn’t. He lets us choose. So even if He sets the standard for good (loving Him) and evil (not loving Him), He doesn’t force that standard on us, which I hope we can both agree is a good thing, in as much as tyranny is not good.
K
Kei
Guest
He is Perfect, morally speaking. He is the source of morals, of justice, of existence, of really all things. He is greater than that which can be pictured.
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CeaselessMedik
Guest
WHY is he perfect? Because he’s inconceivable?
C
CeaselessMedik
Guest
Morally, yes, but in any other way you guys mean it when you say he’s perfect.
C
CeaselessMedik
Guest
Why, the, are we capable of considering so many of his actions immoral if his law is written on our hearts?
W
Wesrock
Guest
God is not God simply because He is the most powerful or first being. It’s not only a matter of might makes right. There is a lot, and I mean a lot, written on this topic by theologians throughout the centuries, and it’s not something that can be summed in a forum post, and it requires stepping back and considering things differently than how you’re used to.
Again, I can’t make the point entirely in a forum post. But you and I are existence manifested in a particular, finite, and conditioned way. So is that dog, that tree, that molecule. All conditioned realities. God’s existence is unconditiones. In fact, God doesn’t just exist, He is existence. He’s not a being, he is Subsistent Being. He’s essentially a reality more real than you or I or anything else. The difference between God’s reality and our reality is why some types of theologians avoid saying “God exists” at all, because they don’t feel that “exists” properly explains God’s reailty and leads people to thinking of Him as being on our level.
Furthermore, God did not simply create in the past and then step back to watch, occasionally stepping back in to tinker. The reality of everything at every moment is dependent on God willing its being. It does not exist apart from God, but because God’s act of creation is still present, not something in the past. He is a foundation to reality, not just a being in reality. He is Subsistent Being itself, not a being among other beings.
This is a limited analogy, but if our universe were a simulation, God is the computer, power source, and programmer it runs on (He’s more than that, but any analogy only goes so far).
When we say that God is perfect, we mean that there is no privation in Him. If a triangle is more imperfect the less it resembles triangulity (a closed shape with three straight sides), and a perfect triangle perfectly exemplifies what it is to be a triangle, God is perfect precisely because He is unconditioned reality without any deviations away from that, in Him all other realities rest.
God’s goodness is similar. A triangle is more good the more perfectly it manifests triangularity. A human is good the more perfectly it manifests humanity (and as rational beings, this involves rational choices, and whether or not we rationalize choose to act in accordance with what it means to be human (what we are) that morality comes in. Note that morality is not an arbitrary set of laws, but simply a subset of what it means for a human to be a good human. Likewise, God is perfectly good because he is perfectly unconditioned reality.
God is not human. He is not a human moral agent. We are human by nature, and to be a good human means to manifest humanity. For God to be good means that he perfectly manifests unconditioned reailty. It’s not a morality statement.
God does will that other things be what they are, as when something more perfectly instantiates what it is it is a better image of God’s own goodness.
(Continued…)
Again, I can’t make the point entirely in a forum post. But you and I are existence manifested in a particular, finite, and conditioned way. So is that dog, that tree, that molecule. All conditioned realities. God’s existence is unconditiones. In fact, God doesn’t just exist, He is existence. He’s not a being, he is Subsistent Being. He’s essentially a reality more real than you or I or anything else. The difference between God’s reality and our reality is why some types of theologians avoid saying “God exists” at all, because they don’t feel that “exists” properly explains God’s reailty and leads people to thinking of Him as being on our level.
Furthermore, God did not simply create in the past and then step back to watch, occasionally stepping back in to tinker. The reality of everything at every moment is dependent on God willing its being. It does not exist apart from God, but because God’s act of creation is still present, not something in the past. He is a foundation to reality, not just a being in reality. He is Subsistent Being itself, not a being among other beings.
This is a limited analogy, but if our universe were a simulation, God is the computer, power source, and programmer it runs on (He’s more than that, but any analogy only goes so far).
When we say that God is perfect, we mean that there is no privation in Him. If a triangle is more imperfect the less it resembles triangulity (a closed shape with three straight sides), and a perfect triangle perfectly exemplifies what it is to be a triangle, God is perfect precisely because He is unconditioned reality without any deviations away from that, in Him all other realities rest.
God’s goodness is similar. A triangle is more good the more perfectly it manifests triangularity. A human is good the more perfectly it manifests humanity (and as rational beings, this involves rational choices, and whether or not we rationalize choose to act in accordance with what it means to be human (what we are) that morality comes in. Note that morality is not an arbitrary set of laws, but simply a subset of what it means for a human to be a good human. Likewise, God is perfectly good because he is perfectly unconditioned reality.
God is not human. He is not a human moral agent. We are human by nature, and to be a good human means to manifest humanity. For God to be good means that he perfectly manifests unconditioned reailty. It’s not a morality statement.
God does will that other things be what they are, as when something more perfectly instantiates what it is it is a better image of God’s own goodness.
(Continued…)
W
Wesrock
Guest
I’m sure this just created a dozen immediate questions and objections and you’ll come up with a hundred more later. That’s to be expected. I’ve slapped together something that takes volumes to properly explore. But maybe I’ve conveyed something of God’s ontological difference from all other realities.
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catholic1seeks
Guest
Best suggestion I have: Get Ed Feser’s Book Five Proofs for the Existence of God.
That’ll do ya a lot of God.
[I meant “a lot of good,” but that’s rather punny, so I’ll keep it with the typo]
Basically, if God were not perfect (or fully actual), then he would have potentials that would need to be actualized by something external to God—other than God. But then God wouldn’t be God. We start by examining reality and see that there must exist some non-contingent, necessarily-existing reality. If not, then NOTHING could exist. Saying that all realities that exist are dependent on other realities for their existence is absurd. There must be at least one unconditioned reality that actualizes the existence of everything else. We know there can only be one such unconditioned reality, one God, because if there were more than one, there would have to be a difference between the realities (or else they would be the exact same). But if there were a difference, then that means the differing feature would not be intrinsic to the unconditioned realitiy – it would be something external: And therefore the realities with differing features could NOT be unconditioned, since they would be conditioned on these extra features and combinations.
Therefore, only one God — One God, and He must be fully actual, and therefore “perfect” with no restrictions. Again, check out the book above.
That’ll do ya a lot of God.
[I meant “a lot of good,” but that’s rather punny, so I’ll keep it with the typo]
Basically, if God were not perfect (or fully actual), then he would have potentials that would need to be actualized by something external to God—other than God. But then God wouldn’t be God. We start by examining reality and see that there must exist some non-contingent, necessarily-existing reality. If not, then NOTHING could exist. Saying that all realities that exist are dependent on other realities for their existence is absurd. There must be at least one unconditioned reality that actualizes the existence of everything else. We know there can only be one such unconditioned reality, one God, because if there were more than one, there would have to be a difference between the realities (or else they would be the exact same). But if there were a difference, then that means the differing feature would not be intrinsic to the unconditioned realitiy – it would be something external: And therefore the realities with differing features could NOT be unconditioned, since they would be conditioned on these extra features and combinations.
Therefore, only one God — One God, and He must be fully actual, and therefore “perfect” with no restrictions. Again, check out the book above.
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