What must we do to be saved?

[EENS]

I am wondering how Catholic the members here are…let’s see…

 

[Racer_X]

Luke 10

25] And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
26] He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?”
27] And he answered, **“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” **
28] And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.”

 

[T.A.Stobie_SFO]

None of the above.

Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. There are many conditions based on the level of knowledge of the individual and even then there is allowances for the mercy of God acting beyond this.

 

[Stylite]

EENS,

I believe as the Church believes.Not as Feeney believes. Simple enough.

-Stylite

 

[ppolz]

whatever the church and my conscience tells me to do !

 

[EENS]

My answer was, as anyone who has discussed with me knows, the first, as the Athanasian Creed (the third major Creed of the Church, along with the Apostles’ Creed and the Nicean Creed) so states:

Quicumque vult salvus esse, ante omnia opus est, ut teneat catholicam fidem: Quam nisi quisque integram inviolatamque servaverit, absque dubio in aeternum peribit.

ET

Haec est fides catholica, quam nisi quisque fideliter firmiterque crediderit, salvus esse non poterit. Amen.

Translated:

Whoever wishes to be saved must, above all, keep the Catholic faith. For unless a person keeps this faith whole and entire, he will undoubtedly perish everlastingly.

AND

This is the Catholic faith. Everyone must believe it, firmly and steadfastly; otherwise He cannot be saved. Amen.

God bless.

Quicumque vult salvus esse, ante omnia opus est, ut teneat catholicam fidem!

 

[EENS]

Stylite:

EENS,

I believe as the Church believes.Not as Feeney believes. Simple enough.

-Stylite

Father Feeney believes as the Church does, so unless you believe as he does, you do not believe as the Church does

 

[EENS]

ppolz:

whatever the church and my conscience tells me to do !

You got the first part right, just drop off your conscience part. God bless.

 

[space_ghost]

here’s all you got to:

believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

i promise you… that’ll do!

 

[Stylite]

EENS:

Father Feeney believes as the Church does, so unless you believe as he does, you do not believe as the Church does

Umm…Ok. From Fr. Most’s treatment of E.E.N.S.

"On August 9, 1949, the Holy Office, by order of Pope Pius XII, and basing itself on the teaching of Pius XII in his Mystical Body Encyclical, condemned the error of Leonard Feeney who held that those who failed to enter the Church formally, even with no fault of their own, could not reach salvation. The decree says:

It is not always required that one be actually incorporated as a member of the Church, but this at least is required: that one adhere to it in wish and desire. It is not always necessary that this be explicit . . . but when a man labors under invincible ignorance, God accepts even an implicit will, called by that name because it is contained in the good disposition of soul in which a man wills to conform his will to the will of God."

Sounds like Feeney’s teaching was sooo endorsed by the Vatican.

-Stylite

 

[EENS]

Stylite:

Umm…Ok. From Fr. Most’s treatment of E.E.N.S.

"On August 9, 1949, the Holy Office, by order of Pope Pius XII, and basing itself on the teaching of Pius XII in his Mystical Body Encyclical, condemned the error of Leonard Feeney who held that those who failed to enter the Church formally, even with no fault of their own, could not reach salvation. The decree says:

It is not always required that one be actually incorporated as a member of the Church, but this at least is required: that one adhere to it in wish and desire. It is not always necessary that this be explicit . . . but when a man labors under invincible ignorance, God accepts even an implicit will, called by that name because it is contained in the good disposition of soul in which a man wills to conform his will to the will of God."

Sounds like Feeney’s teaching was sooo endorsed by the Vatican.

-Stylite

Note two things:

1. The excommunication was RESCINDED before Fr. Feeney’s death; therefore, he died in full communion with the Church
2. However, even if it was not rescinded, SAINT Athanasius, whose Creed I quoted (or at least the Creed attributed to him), a DOCTOR of the Church, not only was excommunicated but even died in that state! Does that mean that we as a Church deem him a heretic and incorrect in his doctrine? Certainly not–he is a Doctor of the Church, which means that his teachings are a foundation for the Faith. He is canonized; therefore, it is an Article of Faith for all to believe that he is in Heaven. Certainly a RESCINDED excommunication letter (not even authoritative, once rescinded) is not “evidence” against Father Feeney.

God bless.

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus!

 

[Melchior]

I picked “believe in Christ and a Triune God” because there was not a better option.

By voting this way I mean to say that one can have no hope of Salvation if they don’t at least believe in the one true (Triune) God. I was not saying that is all Salvation entails.

I like Sts. Paul and Silas answer to the Philippian jailer when he asked the very same question. “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household… and he was baptized at once, he and all his family”

Mel

 

[EENS]

Melchior:

I picked “believe in Christ and a Triune God” because there was not a better option.

By voting this way I mean to say that one can have no hope of Salvation if they don’t at least believe in the one true (Triune) God. I was not saying that is all Salvation entails.

I like Sts. Paul and Silas answer to the Philippian jailer when he asked the very same question. “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household… and he was baptized at once, he and all his family”

Mel

Note how he was BAPTISED. We must be Baptised to go to Heaven, and we must be Catholic. This at least has been defined by the Church. I did not expect anyone to chose anything other than the first three, so long as everyone who votes calls himself a Catholic. However, people often twist the words of the Church to try to invent new “baptisms” and some strange theory that ignorance gives salvation. Nevertheless, to call yourself a Catholic you must accept the Church’s infallible dogma: Outside of Baptism there is no forgiveness of Original Sin and outside the Church there is no salvation. God bless.

 

[theMutant]

EENS responding to Melchior:

Note how he was BAPTISED. We must be Baptised to go to Heaven, and we must be Catholic. This at least has been defined by the Church. I did not expect anyone to chose anything other than the first three, so long as everyone who votes calls himself a Catholic. However, people often twist the words of the Church to try to invent new “baptisms” and some strange theory that ignorance gives salvation. Nevertheless, to call yourself a Catholic you must accept the Church’s infallible dogma: Outside of Baptism there is no forgiveness of Original Sin and outside the Church there is no salvation. God bless.

In your original post you wondered how Catholic the member here are. However, you did not explicitly state that the poll was only for Catholics; just that you are wondering “how Catholic” they are. There are many non-Catholics on this forum. It is wrong for you to assume that only those calling themselves Catholic would respond to a poll titled “What must we do to be saved?”

 

[Chris_Burgwald]

EENS:

My answer was, as anyone who has discussed with me knows, the first, as the Athanasian Creed (the third major Creed of the Church, along with the Apostles’ Creed and the Nicean Creed) so states:

Whoever wishes to be saved must, above all, keep the Catholic faith. For unless a person keeps this faith whole and entire, he will undoubtedly perish everlastingly.

AND

This is the Catholic faith. Everyone must believe it, firmly and steadfastly; otherwise He cannot be saved. Amen.

EENS, someone else already pointed this out, but what about Pius IX’s statements on those who are invincibly ignorant of Catholicism? For example, in his encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore, he states,

“It is known to us and to you that those who are in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion, but who observe carefully the natural law, and the precepts graven by God upon the hearts of all men, and who being disposed to obey God lead an honest and upright life, may, aided by the light of divine grace, attain to eternal life; for God who sees clearly, searches and knows the heart, the disposition, the thoughts and intentions of each, in His supreme mercy and goodness by no means permits that anyone suffer eternal punishment, who has not of his own free will fallen into sin.”
By your reading, Pius IX was a heretic, along with the thousands of bishops and Paul VI who approved of Lumen Gentium at Vatican II, as well as St. Thomas Aquinas.

 

[Stylite]

I don’t deny that Fr. Feeney was reconciled back to the Church in his old age. This wasn’t an endorsement of his views, but a mercy granted to him. That he was reconciled does NOT invalidate the reasons given behind his initial formal excommunication.

From Fr. Most “Some followers of Feeney insist that the fact that he was finally reconciled to the Church without retracting indicates the Church admitted Feeney had been right all along. This is not true: (1) The broad Magisterium texts (with repetition, so that we can claim infallibility for them) are incompatible with Feeney; (2) He was reconciled when quite old. The fact that he was not pushed to do more is an example of the widespread permissiveness that has done so much harm to the Church in our times.”

As to St. Athanasius, the historical situation is not at all analogous to Fr. Feeney’s. Pope Liberius did not want to condemn Athanasius, and only did so under duress if I recall my history correctly. Pope Pius XII most certainly DID want to condemn Feeney’s teachings.

 

[EENS]

Chris Burgwald:

For example, in his encyclical *Quanto conficiamur moerore … *By your reading, Pius IX was a heretic, along with the thousands of bishops and Paul VI who approved of Lumen Gentium at Vatican II, as well as St. Thomas Aquinas.

I thought I made a response to that: his encyclical is not infallible. The Creeds, Councils, and Papal Bulls of the Church are infallible. I am not one to judge a Pope as a heretic, but what I am saying is that what he said is NOT infallible, period. What I quoted IS infallible. No one has brought up something INFALLIBLE stating exceptions to Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus. If no one can, it is ridiculous for anyone at all to follow this strange belief that non-Catholics can be saved, for all the sources are merely fallible. If you want a great number of sources both infallible and infallible, go get Apostolic Digest by Mike Malone. That has probably 100 times as many fallible quotes stating that there are no exceptions as have been posed here stating the opposed, and, of course, it has the listings of infallible sources, as well. St. Thomas Aquinas also stated that Our Lady was not Immaculately conceived. That was declared long after he died. He is not infallible. These solemn infallible declarations came after he died. He died in 1274. The only infallible declaration of the Church about Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus from the Magesterium (that means discounting the Athanasian Creed) was Latern Council IV, which stated, “There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” in 1215. This seems clear enough, but if even a man such as the great St. Thomas Aquinas could have erred studying this, then the Church saw need to better define Her doctrine, which She did less than 200 years after St. Thomas Aquinas’ death in the Council of Florence: “The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.”

God bless.

 

[EENS]

theMutant:

In your original post you wondered how Catholic the member here are. However, you did not explicitly state that the poll was only for Catholics; just that you are wondering “how Catholic” they are. There are many non-Catholics on this forum. It is wrong for you to assume that only those calling themselves Catholic would respond to a poll titled “What must we do to be saved?”

1. I was intending only Catholics to answer the poll, but I did not make that clear. It is fine if a heretic wants to reply, as well.
2. I think she is Catholic.

God bless.

 

[Stylite]

“Pope Pius XII most certainly DID want to condemn Feeney’s teachings.”

Well, I forgot that there are those who believe Masons were really behind this and Vatican II.

 

[EENS]

Stylite:

I don’t deny that Fr. Feeney was reconciled back to the Church in his old age. This wasn’t an endorsement of his views, but a mercy granted to him. That he was reconciled does NOT invalidate the reasons given behind his initial formal excommunication.

From Fr. Most “Some followers of Feeney insist that the fact that he was finally reconciled to the Church without retracting indicates the Church admitted Feeney had been right all along. This is not true: (1) The broad Magisterium texts (with repetition, so that we can claim infallibility for them) are incompatible with Feeney; (2) He was reconciled when quite old. The fact that he was not pushed to do more is an example of the widespread permissiveness that has done so much harm to the Church in our times.”

As to St. Athanasius, the historical situation is not at all analogous to Fr. Feeney’s. Pope Liberius did not want to condemn Athanasius, and only did so under duress if I recall my history correctly. Pope Pius XII most certainly DID want to condemn Feeney’s teachings.

The Church has never before admitted a heretic/schismatic into the Church willingly. Certainly, after being excommunicated he would never be permitted BACK into the Church if he was incorrect in his doctrine. Only by recanting would be be permitted back into the Church. Not only is Fr. Most far from infallible, his logic is off-the-wall here. God bless.