What "Sola" Did Jesus Teach......

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JRKH said:
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :bowdown: :bowdown:

I wonder if that could possibly be because it seeks to look at the pure teaching from Jesus himself. If we can focus on what He told us to say and do it seems that we mostly agree.
It is only when we start getting into the “what does that mean”, or “but it could also mean”, or “Yes but in the original Latin/Greek/Coptic/Hebrew/Aramaic/Vulcan/Klingon…” (sorry got carried away) But it is in these discussions that we wind up fighting with each other.

Peace
James
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You may rise. I’ve never been much on formalities.

Good point. We are also missing a lot of the firebombers who pitch napalm posts
 
I would like all of you to consider this question. What is love? What is the love that Jesus talks of?

This may lead us to a new understanding.

I understand your point, nsper. I think that we need to grasp love first.
 
ralphinal said:
I would like all of you to consider this question. What is love? What is the love that Jesus talks of?

This may lead us to a new understanding.

I understand your point, nsper. I think that we need to grasp love first.
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But I think the central tenet of love (at least as it is described in Scripture) is that it has to be voluntary. Belief in the Salvific work of Christ is necessary for Salvation under the ‘normal circumstance’, but love for Christ would have to be, in my opinion, a voluntary choice (threats of Hell make it no longer voluntary).

Look at this way, what if you do many great works (forsake earthly joys, serve the poor, help those in need), but what if you motivation is: I don’t want to go to Hell and I believe this is what is required to avoid Hellfire. Would that be love?
 
nsper7 said:
But I think the central tenet of love (at least as it is described in Scripture) is that it has to be voluntary. Belief in the Salvific work of Christ is necessary for Salvation under the ‘normal circumstance’, but love for Christ would have to be, in my opinion, a voluntary choice (threats of Hell make it no longer voluntary).

Look at this way, what if you do many great works (forsake earthly joys, serve the poor, help those in need), but what if you motivation is: I don’t want to go to Hell and I believe this is what is required to avoid Hellfire. Would that be love?
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Doing it to avoid hell would not be love.

To me, the love taught by Christ has nothing to do with feelings or emotions. It is choosing another’s well being over your own. Love, in my understanding, is dying on a cross. Love, in my understanding, is suffering at the hands of the Romans. Love, in my understanding, is the parent who gets up in the night to care for a child’s need. This is the love of Christ. I can see this being a part of salvation in many ways.

Now, this kind of love would be unrelated to heaven and hell. Heaven and hell are related to sin and faith. If you say that I am sorry for my sins because I do not want to go to hell, that is not perfect contrition, but it is understandable.
 
nsper7 said:
But I think the central tenet of love (at least as it is described in Scripture) is that it has to be voluntary. Belief in the Salvific work of Christ is necessary for Salvation under the ‘normal circumstance’, but love for Christ would have to be, in my opinion, a voluntary choice (threats of Hell make it no longer voluntary).

Look at this way, what if you do many great works (forsake earthly joys, serve the poor, help those in need), but what if you motivation is: I don’t want to go to Hell and I believe this is what is required to avoid Hellfire. Would that be love?
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Yes, but it would be self love.
It would not be the Love of God.

Peace
James
 
JonNC said:
James, TU, Ralph, et al.
This is the best thread I’ve seen in months. Thanks to all.

Jon
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You are more than welcome. It has been a pleasure posting on this thread.

I think that I have learned a lot
 
ralphinal said:
I agree, after all I am not into double predestination. However, the Law in their hearts is the natural law, and they can follow it fine.
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I assume you’re speaking about a non-Christian here.

Rom. 8:7: For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot.

1 Cor. 2:14: The natural person **does not **accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is **not able **to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Gen. 6:5: And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Jer. 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

John 3:3: Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he **cannot **see the kingdom of God.

(This statement alone from Christ shows that all those who are not born again will never enter heaven.)

John 15:4-5: Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

This statement also demonstrates that outside of Christ, all trees are bad trees; hence, good fruit (obedience to the Law) will never manifest itself.

John 6:65: And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man **can **come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Psa. 130:3: If you, O Lord, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand?

And lastly, of course…Romans 3:9-20

These are just a few of the statements in Scripture (a few from Christ as well JR 😛 ) that demonstrate unbelievers cannot adhere to the Law. If they were born without original sin, as was Adam, then they would be able to.
And what of those who were never near someone to hear?
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Then they will be judged according to their own righteousness (hint; not good news).
 
nsper7 said:
Remember, one has to be careful not to presume on God’s mercy. Although Scripture says what it says, one has to remember that God can show mercy to whom He so chooses.
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We can only adduce the will of God from that which He has revealed to us in the sacred writings; according to the will of God which He has revealed, none will enter heaven unless they repent and believe the Gospel.
 
TriuneUnity said:
We can only adduce the will of God from that which He has revealed to us in the sacred writings; according to the will of God which He has revealed, none will enter heaven unless they repent and believe the Gospel.
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Your version of God is not merciful to those who had no chance to learn of Christ, or am I missing something?
 
ralphinal said:
Your version of God is not merciful to those who had no chance to learn of Christ, or am I missing something?
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God is merciful to those who are in Christ. But God is also perfectly Holy and He must punish sin. If someone does not have faith in Christ, they are not receiving the benefit of the punishment that was laid on Christ on their behalf.

God is more than merciful in providing any way of salvation at all. He has chosen to provide one way of salvation. That is more than we ever will deserve.
 
JRKH said:
It seems to me that in most of the threads dealing with the various “Sola’s” a preponderence of the quotes come from epistles rather than from Gospels.

This started me thinking and looking at the Gospels for what Jesus says about Faith, Scripture, and Works. I did not get very far into Matthew but found, to my surprise, that the first item Jesus says is not a teaching on faith or scriptures, but an act, for He says to John the Baptist,

I know that Jesus often refers of the faith of individuals who seek healing.
He also quotes from Scripture and corrects interpretation.
But He so often speaks of acts - things we are to do or not do.

So I am asking the folks here, especially the Sola’ believers, to show me Which “Sola” Jesus taught. Or can it be shown that He did not teach ANY Sola.

This needs to be done by direct quotes of Jesus actual teachings from the Gospels and not with quotes from the Epistles.

Peace
James
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The only Sola that Jesus taught was that He alone can save which is true. He did not taught faith alone nor did he taught Scripture alone. Those two doctrine are brand new invited by a Augustinian monk name Martin Luther in the 1530s…
 
Mannyfit75 said:
The only Sola that Jesus taught was that He alone can save which is true. He did not taught faith alone nor did he taught Scripture alone. Those two doctrine are brand new invited by a Augustinian monk name Martin Luther in the 1530s…
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Then you agree that Jesus teach Sola Iesus.🙂
 
Mannyfit75 said:
The only Sola that Jesus taught was that He alone can save which is true. He did not taught faith alone nor did he taught Scripture alone. Those two doctrine are brand new invited by a Augustinian monk name Martin Luther in the 1530s…
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Hey Manny

I haven’t seen you on in a while. I hope everything is going well. You guys are in our prayers.
 
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