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Darren488
Guest
Hello, I have heard of the Catholic crusades but am not fully aware of what they were?
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Vincent
Guest
A good place to start is in reading “What the Crusades Were Really Like”.
You could probably summarize the Crusades this way: “defensive wars”
You could probably summarize the Crusades this way: “defensive wars”
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RobbyS
Guest
Madden maybe should have addressed Charlemagne’s expeditions against the Saxons, which amounted to conversion by the sword. Not all of the expansion of Islam was accomplished by military means. The Turks and other peoples of Cerntral Asia simply adopted it because of cultural and trade influences, as did the peoples of the East Indies. But the main point is well-taken. Islam is an aggressive and intolerant faith.
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BibleReader
Guest
My brother was talking to a pro-American Moslem, who said to him something like, “Westerners are foolish. Over in Europe, and in America, they are worried about the political correctness of any public expressions of any faith. In Europe, not too many years from now, the Moslem birth rate will cause the number of Moslems to exceed the number of non-Moslems. When that happens, you’ll all be forced to dress like Moslems!”
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Maranatha
Guest
The Jews refused to cave in to the “cultural and trade” pressures (as they usually do) and they have been persecuted by Muslims ever since. Some would say the sword would have been more merciful.
But the main point is well-taken. Islam is an aggressive and intolerant faith.
Agreed.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
No. The Jews rebelled against Rome in 66 AD. The Roman general (and later Emperor) Titus stormed Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple in 70 AD.
After a second Jewish Rebellion in 133-35 AD, the Emperor Hadrian drove the Jews out of Judea and build a Roman city, Aliea Capitolina on the ruins of Jerusalem. Jews were not allowed to live within a day’s travel.
St. Helen prevalied upon her son, Constentime to change the name of the city back to Jerusalem, but he did not revoke the edict against the Jews.
In 632 AD, the Muslims took Jerusalem, and THEY allowed the Jews to return.
In 1099, the Christian Crusaders took Jerusalem, and they herded all the Jews and Muslims (and a few Christians) outside the city and massacred them. Jews were again forbidden to live in Jerusalem until the 13th Century, when the Muslims re-took Jerusalem.
When we consider what Christians have done to the Jews – including driving them out of Spain, Portugal and England, oppressing them and confining them to ghettos, conducting pogroms against them - and finally the Holocaust - we have little room to look down on the Muslims as persecutors of the Jews!
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elvisman
Guest
vern humphrey:
I would HARDLY consider what Hitler did to the Jews an act by “Christians”. The “Christian world” did not slaughter millions of Jew in WWII. En evil empire, led by one of the moset twisted mids in history did. Now you sound like the anti-Catholics who claim that the Church was responsible for this - those same people rejecting the fact that through the Holy Father, Pius XII over 700,00 lives were saved!
Please do your homework before spewing out historical inaccuracies.
"Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ" - St. Jerome
EXCUSE me??
I would HARDLY consider what Hitler did to the Jews an act by “Christians”. The “Christian world” did not slaughter millions of Jew in WWII. En evil empire, led by one of the moset twisted mids in history did. Now you sound like the anti-Catholics who claim that the Church was responsible for this - those same people rejecting the fact that through the Holy Father, Pius XII over 700,00 lives were saved!
Please do your homework before spewing out historical inaccuracies.
"Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ" - St. Jerome
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vern_humphrey
Guest
elvisman said:
I see. When someone who is formally a Christian (as Hitler was) acts in a brutal manner, we are quick to say “Well, he WASN’T a Christian.”
But when a Muslim acts that way, we demand that all of Islam be held responsible.
The fact is, many people who directly participated in the Holocaust considered themselves to be Christian – Lutherans, Orthodox and so on.
And the fact is also that it was the Muslims who allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem – and they did it not once, but twice.
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gus
Guest
Read “Salvation is from the Jews” for a look at the historical roots of the Holocost.
In short the racial policies of Nazism had it roots in Dawinism
In a culture that had turned away from Christainity.
In short the racial policies of Nazism had it roots in Dawinism
In a culture that had turned away from Christainity.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Oh, yes. Germany CALLED itself a Christian nation for hundreds of years. And for a good bit of that time, they racked up a record of discrimnation against Jews – if that underlying anti-Jewish tradition hadn’t been there, there could never have been a Holocaust.
The people who participated in the Holocaust were often members of Christian churches.
So we tie ourselves in knots to show that anti-semitism isn’t Christian – all the while attacking Islam and demanding that THEY accept responsibility for things that pale beside some of the things Christians have done to Jews.
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Carl
Guest
vern humphrey
I see. When someone who is formally a Christian (as Hitler was) acts in a brutal manner, we are quick to say “Well, he WASN’T a Christian.”
Hitler was not a Christian.He persecuted Catholics and Lutherans as well as Jews. Why would you call someone a Christian who behaved as Hitler did?
I see. When someone who is formally a Christian (as Hitler was) acts in a brutal manner, we are quick to say “Well, he WASN’T a Christian.”
Hitler was not a Christian.He persecuted Catholics and Lutherans as well as Jews. Why would you call someone a Christian who behaved as Hitler did?
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Hitler was baptized – that makes him a Christian by definition. His nation considered itself Christian. For centuries. Many of the people who participated directly in the Holocaust considered themselves Christians.
Now, I admit they were not GOOD Christians – my point is the hypocracy of attacking Islam for what BAD Muslims do, while squirming and twisting to avoid accepting that BAD Christians have done worse things.
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Carl
Guest
vern
*Now, I admit they were not GOOD Christians *
It goes much deeper than that. Hitler had repudiated his Christian heritage.
Read up on the subject. According to one published source, Hitler planned to annihilate all of Christianity, not just the Jews. He massacred millions of Catholics throughout Europe, but especially in Poland.
Think about it.
As someone on another thread remarked, would anybody be allowed to call himself an atheist if he went to Mass, Confession and Communion every day?
Why would you call Hitler a Christian when he allied himself so completely with crimes against humanity?
*Now, I admit they were not GOOD Christians *
It goes much deeper than that. Hitler had repudiated his Christian heritage.
Read up on the subject. According to one published source, Hitler planned to annihilate all of Christianity, not just the Jews. He massacred millions of Catholics throughout Europe, but especially in Poland.
Think about it.
As someone on another thread remarked, would anybody be allowed to call himself an atheist if he went to Mass, Confession and Communion every day?
Why would you call Hitler a Christian when he allied himself so completely with crimes against humanity?
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Why would you call Osama Bin Laden and his cohorts Muslims when they violate the basic tenents of Islam?
Think about it – we have all sorts of excuses to pretend WE never did bad things to Jews, and attack Muslims instead.
The men who massacred the Jews and Muslim population of Jerusalem were Christians – they wore the cross on their surcoats to show it.
Many of the people who participated in the Holocaust were Christians – and never repudiated their religion.
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john_ennis
Guest
vern humphrey:
And yes, it is just as wrong if we blame Muslims for the act of a Muslim which has nothing to do with any aspect of that culture.
The point is, it’s as meaningless to say “What Hitler did was an act of Christians toward Jews,” as it would be to say it was “an act of men with mustaches toward Jews.” It had nothing to do with Christian faith or culture.
And yes, it is just as wrong if we blame Muslims for the act of a Muslim which has nothing to do with any aspect of that culture.
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Carl
Guest
vern
Why would you call Osama Bin Laden and his cohorts Muslims when they violate the basic tenents of Islam?
I never called them Muslims.
The point is that Hitler was not a Christian. Nor was his policy by any stretch of imagination a Christian policy. Whatever Christians he enlisted to do his dirty work did so with guns pointed at their heads, not necessarily as a matter of Christian policy.
Why would you call Osama Bin Laden and his cohorts Muslims when they violate the basic tenents of Islam?
I never called them Muslims.
The point is that Hitler was not a Christian. Nor was his policy by any stretch of imagination a Christian policy. Whatever Christians he enlisted to do his dirty work did so with guns pointed at their heads, not necessarily as a matter of Christian policy.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
I mean “you” in the general sense.
On this very thread, someone posted "The Jews refused to cave in to the “cultural and trade” pressures (as they usually do) and they have been persecuted by Muslims ever since. Some would say the sword would have been more merciful.
But the main point is well-taken. Islam is an aggressive and intolerant faith."
The facts show differently – Christians have done far more persecuting of Jews than Muslims.
And when we attack Muslims we insist that what one Muslim does, all Muslims are guilty of. When we face what Christians have done, we immediately jump through hoops to claim they weren’t REALLY Christians.
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Carl
Guest
vern
When we face what Christians have done, we immediately jump through hoops to claim they weren’t REALLY Christians.
Hitler REALLY wasn’t Christian.
God bless.
Carl
When we face what Christians have done, we immediately jump through hoops to claim they weren’t REALLY Christians.
Hitler REALLY wasn’t Christian.
God bless.
Carl
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vern_humphrey
Guest
And Osama Bin Laden and the suicide bombers aren’t REALLY Muslims.
And across the board, the claim (made in this thread) that the Muslims have persecuted Jews is a false one. Christians have persecuted Jews, but by and large, Islam has good record of toleration for the Jews.
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elvisman
Guest
vern humphrey:
Osama and his legions do NOT reject Islam. They fight their Jihad (holy war) in the NAME of Islam and encourage ALL Muslims to do the same.
Hitler NEVER waged war in the name of Christianity. He didn’t butcher in the name of Jesus. Hitler despised religion.
You mention in an earlier posting:
“The fact is, many people who directly participated in the Holocaust considered themselves to be Christian – Lutherans, Orthodox and so on.”
Let me ask you this: How many of them were Catholic, mentally retarded, crippled, homosexual?? Jews weren’t the only ones butchered in the holocaust.
Whatever point you are attempting to make in regards to Muslim/Judeo relations, you are making the WRONG point when you lump Christianity, namely Catholicism, in with Adolf Hitler.
"Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ" - St. Jerome
WRONG, my friend.
Osama and his legions do NOT reject Islam. They fight their Jihad (holy war) in the NAME of Islam and encourage ALL Muslims to do the same.
Hitler NEVER waged war in the name of Christianity. He didn’t butcher in the name of Jesus. Hitler despised religion.
You mention in an earlier posting:
“The fact is, many people who directly participated in the Holocaust considered themselves to be Christian – Lutherans, Orthodox and so on.”
Let me ask you this: How many of them were Catholic, mentally retarded, crippled, homosexual?? Jews weren’t the only ones butchered in the holocaust.
Whatever point you are attempting to make in regards to Muslim/Judeo relations, you are making the WRONG point when you lump Christianity, namely Catholicism, in with Adolf Hitler.
"Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ" - St. Jerome
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