What to do about the End Times

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flick427

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Most “hardcore” protestants I run into get really preachy about the end times things.
Two that I just was thinking of and confused by were the temple being rebuilt (I have yet to find the passage). I am wondering where this is from and why do they automatically assume that it has to be rebuilt literally…and then, there is that crazy mark of the beast fiasco. There is some micro-chip deal going with a Spanish club or something where they (referenced to a book by Terry Cook I believe) claim that this “micro-chip” will be implanted to control people and was made back a few years ago. Some think it may be a bar code on thier foreheads…either way, it is the same.
Of coures after that, the whol rapture theory gets thrown out there and then we have a mess on our hands, and I am usually left speachless…I am at a loss for what to say when this stuff is brought up. Sure, I would not want a micro-chip in my hand, but they make it seem like it all boils down to choosing sides between the “evil new world order” and the “courageous free man’s world”…my point I suppose is that if we run aroung worrying about it, that is not going to help any, but I want to find a good Catholic website or book (preferabbly a website) that dispells some of this specualtion and I could use to help Catholics who may even fall into this thought process. I even heard a Catholic going crazy about the mark of the beast one day and I wanted to tell him to chill out, but he’s read all those “end times” books and has more ammo than I do…what’s a fella to do?
 
A good book on the rapture…The Rapture Trap
(not sure who the author is)

The rebuilding of the temple thing may have popped up in some catholic prophecies as well - although it does not appear it is going to be something that happens right away does it? 🙂
 
Look up “The Rapture Trap: A Catholic Response to End Times” by Paul Thigpen. I believe he is a fundamentalist Protestant convert to Catholicism. Do a search on Google or look it up on Amazon.com. I recall reading an article by Thigpen that debunked the Left Behind/Rapture/End Times beliefs. But the bottom line is that no matter how well versed you are in the issue, the people who believe that in it don’t want to hear anything that contradicts their beliefs.
 
That may be true for some people - and I know some I’ve spoken to have had that reaction.
But there were people I spoke to who were genuinely shocked that this doctrine has not been taught since the beginning.
They are shocked to learn that a majority of christianity does not teach it.
I know some catholics who read the Left Behind series and believed it. I think this is due more to the fact that it is rare for catholic priests to teach about catholic end times theology.
So the only place some catholics hear about it is from evangelical friends or from the books.

I am really saddened by what Jack VanImpe is doing to people.
He is entertaining and enthusiastic - but I’ve seen him assure his audience several times that they belong to the generation that is not going to die (they will be raptured instead)
I think that is a dangerous thing to tell people.
 
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Lorarose:
That may be true for some people - and I know some I’ve spoken to have had that reaction.
But there were people I spoke to who were genuinely shocked that this doctrine has not been taught since the beginning.
They are shocked to learn that a majority of christianity does not teach it.
I know some catholics who read the Left Behind series and believed it.
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Lorarose–You are right. Many people have just heard the one side and are willing to hear a different perspective. It strikes me as interesting that so many people want to believe the Left Behind/End Times views. But I guess it is because they are convinced that they will be spared and everyone who is not “Born Again Christian” (excluding Catholics, because in their view we are not Christian) will be condemned. When I hear such views, I am thankful that the Catholic Church does not preach harsh views towards non-Catholics. Instead, the Cathechism is far more charitable on the ability of non-Catholics–Christian or otherwise–to get to heaven.
 
If you want an explanation of Catholic belief about the End Times, EWTN has a series going on called “Last Things.” I don’t know the exact day and times it’s on (it seems to repeat a lot. I’ve seen it Friday nights at 9:30, I think). Their website should have the info.
 
In my experience, 99.9% of all the speculation about the end times is based on various and sundry interpretations of the Book of Revelation. A great antidote to the whole mess is the Preterist interpretation of the book, which basically holds it was primarily fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70AD. Scott Hahn has a great tape series out on it (titled “The End”) that goes into a fair amount of detail. He references heavily a book by a Protestant scholar, David Chilton, titled “Days of Vengeance”, which is an outstanding resource. Evangelicals may be more convinced by one of their own - I believe R. C. Sproul has come around to the Preterist interpretation and has a book out on it as well, “The Last Days According to Jesus”. I haven’t read this last one, so I can’t comment on how good it is.

The book of Revelation itself insists that the events prophesied will occur “SOON”. I’ve challenged many an end-times obsessed person to show me one place in the entire bible where “soon” means “2000 years from now”. I’ve yet to find one.
 
During the years I was a baptist, I heard these teachings. My mom is still a baptist. An american baptist. And she is really into those “Left Behind” books. I read the first three and part of the fourth. I quit then because the story was getting so far out I couldn’t follow the story line. It had gotten ridiculous.

I believed that stuff for many years, because I hadn’t heard the other side of the story. But I have also heard sort of similar stories. The JW’s believe that only 144,000 will go to heaven. And since that number has already been reached, the other “faithful” will be left here on earth to “clean up” after the final battle.

Strange, really. Especially since in the book of Revelations it says that the old earth has passed away, and a new heaven and new earth will exist. Whatever.

But I think the one thing positive that I’ve gotten out of it is the fact that I more closely examine my life because I don’t know when my end will come. As the old teaching that I was taught says, “we must always be ready to meet the Lord face to face!”
 
Catholic Scripture Study from Catholic Exchange has a good study of the Book of Revelation that goes into some detail about the “end times” teaching. If you’re interested, I’d recommend it:
catholicexchange.com/css/
 
It seems as if every generation has its people who like to think that the end is near. It makes life more exciting for people .
 
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SteveT:
In my experience, 99.9% of all the speculation about the end times is based on various and sundry interpretations of the Book of Revelation. A great antidote to the whole mess is the Preterist interpretation of the book, which basically holds it was primarily fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70AD. .
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Well now your going way overboard to the other spectrum. While a large portion of the book of Revlelation can be legitamately about preterist events about the Fall of the Temple in Jerusalem and the Emperor Nero and such it does not explain fully the second coming which the catholic church does believe in.

In short the catholic church is not almost entrely futurist as in the fundamentilst tradtion nor almost entirely the preterist postion taking storm among academics of the Reformed variety.

A big thing with the sacrifices of the temples as in the Book of Revelation catholics beleive that is currently being fullfilled by the sacrifice of the mass right now. Protestanst who deny the sacrifice of the mass see the sacrifices and the rebuiling of the temple not as a type of the mass with the church as the type being fullfilled but the literal sacrifice of Temple sacrificing Jerusalem. Both catholics and premilinial fundamentialist protestants would agree there is a sacrife that occurs in the Book of Revelations as in Scott Hahn’s tape series THE END he points to the sacrifice of the mass taking up a large amount of the Book of Revelation therefore for those who see no sacrifice like fundamentalist have to go to a fullfillment outside of Jesus. THis is a big no no in new testamnet exegesis where in the end all new testament fulffilment is centered on Jesus in apostolic interpretation. So they look to a fullfillment in a very pre-jesus sacrifical system of Animal sacrifice Temple Jerusalem. Thus many fundamentilist look to the rebuilding of the Temple and fund these projects that are Zionist and inflame the Palestinian situation considering most of the temple lies in Mulsim territory under the Dome of the Rock mosque dedicated to Mohammed in Jerusalem. Of course if this goes through its the beginning of WW 3 and the self-fulfillment of fundamentalsit prophecy.
The church is amilllinial and second advent in its theology meaning the millinium is symbolic of the current time of the church and we have a literal second coming of Jesus in the future however there is not a secret rapture for his chosen church. The second coming is on the timeline of the last day of judgement and no period of time as we know it exists after that.

Will Catholics Be Left Behind by Carl E. Olson is an excelent overview of the many agreements we have with the Preterist and includes many footnotes of Reformed theologians however the catholic creeds and church fathers defineitly spoke of the second advent making an estimate of the book of Revelation as 99 percent preterist way to high. However to speculate it as majority preterist is tenable but neither affirmed or denied by the church.

Historically neither Calvin or Luther were preterist nor RAPTURIST either so to do away with the second coming is an overreaction to the fundamentilist postion. Both would be inventions of modern protestantism.
 
Mac:

I in no way intended to assert that the second coming will not happen. IMHO, the millenium of Rev 20 is a reference to the church age - our current age - and that the events that take place after the millenium are yet to be fulfilled. These include the resurrection of the dead, the second coming, the final defeat of Satan, and the final judgment.
 
Steve T

Amen to your very catholic view of the end of time.

Your statment that interpreting the boook of Revelation in a Preterist fashion got my attention but you seem to know what I was getting at.
The book can be interpreted in mostly that way but certain chapters have passages have yet to take place and our creedal statements speak of events that have not yet happened. Therefore catholics are not Preterist or Futurist in protestant eschatology. We are a little of both and of course right:)
 
of course, we’re right. if there’s anything we agree on around here, it’s that we’re right.

just kidding.

just wanted to chime in and point out that alot of people tend to get really worked up about end times issues, as it takes their minds off of things like ‘taking up your cross daily’ or ‘loving God with all of our heart, mind, soul, and strength and loving our neighbor as ourself’. 🙂

as far as the microchip goes, sure, it could be the mark of the beast. sound kinda like it to me. but i have a feeling that you won’t wonder when the time comes. it will be a matter of rejecting Christ when the mark comes. if it comes in a physical way at all. who knows? but the RCC has been very good (some might say perfect) all along the way, throughout history, pointing out what her children should do in various circumstances. i have a feeling she’ll point us the right way in this, too.
 
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