What to do? My friend's rebuttal to ABC

[Pro-Life_Teen]

“Condom’s stop STD’s. Yeah, they prevent life, but if the mother and the kid both get an STD, that’s two deaths.”

Argh, what am I to say?! I can’t think on an answer on the spot, and I choke.

“They do stop STD’s, but not even most of them.” I pointed out, biting my lip as my mind thought frantically.
“But they stop some of them, Victoria.” she replied, looking to me and wishing my reply.
“Um–” I tried to think of an answer quickly, but nothing came to mind…

Help!

 

[Jadesfire20]

“Condom’s stop STD’s. Yeah, they prevent life, but if the mother and the kid both get an STD, that’s two deaths.”

Argh, what am I to say?! I can’t think on an answer on the spot, and I choke.

“They do stop STD’s, but not even most of them.” I pointed out, biting my lip as my mind thought frantically.
“But they stop some of them, Victoria.” she replied, looking to me and wishing my reply.
“Um–” I tried to think of an answer quickly, but nothing came to mind…

Help!

Are you talking about ABC within marriage or outside? Cause if its outside I’d say keep your bloomers on, Scarlett, and then you won’t have to worry about it!

 

[Pro-Life_Teen]

Both. She said that she doesn’t trust her future-husband, whoever God chose for her.

When I replied that I have complete trust, she said, “But you don’t know where he’s been.”

I tried to explain that you’re one body in marrige… but she replied that what if 1/2 of that body has an STD?

I wish help… I want to get through to her, but as I said, I choke.

 

[AmyS]

Pro-Life_Teen:

Both. She said that she doesn’t trust her future-husband, whoever God chose for her.

When I replied that I have complete trust, she said, “But you don’t know where he’s been.”

I tried to explain that you’re one body in marrige… but she replied that what if 1/2 of that body has an STD?

I wish help… I want to get through to her, but as I said, I choke.

If she doesn’t trust her husband then she shouldn’t marry him. This would be something I would hope she would settle before she got married. The great thing with the Catholic church and the Pre-Cana classes is all of these things are brought up. It doesn’t sound like she has a good grasp on marriage. The other thing is condoms don’t guarantee protection either. There is really no way she can justify herself. You are doing really well it sounds to me… You can’t change her unfortunatlly, it sounds like she is looking for an excuse.

 

[johnq]

Have you tried posting this on the Chasity forums?

pureloveclub.com/

 

[CARose]

I’ll start by admitting to my ignorance.

ABC?

I’m assuming it’s an acronym, but I’m missing it.

Anyway, the real reason I’m posting a reply is add to something Amy touched on. It sounds like part of what is going on between you and your friend is a challenge, where each of you is attempting to prove to the other the rightness of your position. You are encouraged to know why we are called to Chasity and why the Catholic Church so wonderfully teaches that contraception is evil. You are encouraged to share these truths with your friends. However, you do not need to insist she accept the Truth. The Holy Spirit will give you the words you need in your defense when you need them.

If you find yourself at a loss for words, perhaps your friend is not ready to hear your response at that time. Take a breath, relax. Being a good friend is a wonderful witness to the Love of Christ. Continue to learn about your faith and why it is so wonderful to wait for you future spouse so that you need not worry about the potential of all the issues that can arise from inappropriate intimate contact. These issues CANNOT be 100% avoided by the use of any barrier. There are issues of disease and pregnancy, neither of which are adequately protected against by condoms. But there are also issues for the soul and the emotions.

If you continue to keep yourself pure, you are in a better position to find a spouse who has also kept him/herself pure while waiting for you. If your future spouse did not wait for you before experimenting with relations, that is something you will need to address during your courtship or pre-cana process. You will be older and more prepared to handle the challenges that this will present.

In the meantime, the use of condoms really isn’t something you or your friend need to worry about at this time.

You may have friends who don’t recognize the value in waiting for the spouse with whom they will spend the rest of their life. For them, condoms DO NOT protect them from either pregnancy or disease. Please DO NOT allow this lie to be perpetuated. I suggest you get a copy of “Standing with Courage” by Mary-Louise Kurey. She was Miss Wisconsin, 1999 and she spoke on a platform of Chastity. In Chapter 6 she sites a number of sources of NIH and other juried scientific papers which confirm the scientific fact that condoms DO NOT protect. Abstinence protects, Chastity allows us to grow in love for Christ.

God Bless you for trying to speak the Truth in Love.

CARose

 

[Exporter]

Pro life teen,

From what you have said, I assume you have a so-called “friend” who is haveing sexual intercourse with someone she is not married to, is that correct? That person has been discussing illicit sex with you, right?

If you are Roman Catholic as I am, you would tell your “friend” to stay away from you. Those conversations are an occasion for sin.

I have 4 children, all above 18. If you were my daughter I would tell you to “Knock it off”, to stay away from your hussey of a “friend”.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

How about: “Let me get this straight. You’re getting into a marriage in which you think your future spouse is out getting STDs, and you think the Church is your problem? Wow.” Really, it’s like being in favor of carrying a concealed weapon without a permit because your spouse is a bank robber.

Having said that… if a husband has been diagnosed with an STD, and if the only way to hope to prevent his wife from contracting the disease is to use a condom, and if their purpose in using the condom is neither to prevent the transmission of life nor to permit the husband to continue a life of adultery, but to prevent the transmission of disease… in that case, the use of a condom may be allowed as a prudent medical precaution until the husband is no longer contagious. Obviously, the idea would be to abandon the use of the condom as soon as it was medically prudent to do so. (I would think that they could just refrain from sexual activity for the short time it takes to get an initial diagnosis.) I would certainly advise her to seek council, in that case, because actions which have a moral primary intention and the unintended secondary effect of preventing conception are not immoral, per se… but you do have to rule out better solutions.

Having said that, if the husband or the wife go into the marriage fully intending to commit adultery or more or less certain that they will, I’m not so sure that is even a valid marriage.

 

[Pro-Life_Teen]

No, she’s not sleeping with anyone. We were talking and that seemed to turn into a debate about some of the Church’s teachings. She just rules in favor of condoms, and her reply is that they prevent STD’s.

Roman Catholic, yeah.

ABC- Artificial Birthcontrol.

And thank you for your replies!

 

[BLB_Oregon]

Exporter:

If you are Roman Catholic as I am, you would tell your “friend” to stay away from you. Those conversations are an occasion for sin. I have 4 children, all above 18. If you were my daughter I would tell you to “Knock it off”, to stay away from your hussey of a “friend”.

Well, although your point is fodder for an honest examination of conscience, it does not sound as if this teen is tempted in the least to emulate her friend. That puts her in a very good position to keep telling her friend the truth and witness to the fact that God doesn’t reject you, even if he does reject your behavior. The message “My kind doesn’t consort with your kind”, OTOH, is not something that wins many of the lost back into the fold… which is, after all, the source of Heaven’s greatest rejoicing. (Not to mention the danger of spiritual pride such an attitude exposes one to.)

If you must distance yourself from your friend, be honest that the source of the problem is your concern for your own soul and your ability to hang on to your own values, and not any intention to make her think her behavior makes her unlovable to God.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

Pro-Life_Teen:

No, she’s not sleeping with anyone. We were talking and that seemed to turn into a debate about some of the Church’s teachings. She just rules in favor of condoms, and her reply is that they prevent STD’s.

Then don’t you choke one bit. Poke that girl in the ribs and ask her who she’s trying to fool
She knows the best way to prevent STDs… it’s just the hardest. She needs to give people some credit.

 

[1ke]

“Condom’s stop STD’s. Yeah, they prevent life, but if the mother and the kid both get an STD, that’s two deaths.”

Argh, what am I to say?! I can’t think on an answer on the spot, and I choke.

“They do stop STD’s, but not even most of them.” I pointed out, biting my lip as my mind thought frantically.
“But they stop some of them, Victoria.” she replied, looking to me and wishing my reply.
“Um–” I tried to think of an answer quickly, but nothing came to mind…

Help!

It’s just another variation of Ends and Means. Not having sex also prevents STDs and pregnancy. This is also a variation on the thread you posted some time ago-- the “if you’re going to do it anyway shouldn’t we teach people to be safe” thread. The answer was no, because it is always intrinsically evil to use contraception. I think my analogy was if a person was determined to steal one could not give them a mask so they could steal more effectively and reduce the chance of getting caught. The root of the issue is that fornication and contraception are both wrong and can never be used to achieve a good end.

On the practical level… condoms, like all methods, have a failure rate for both STDs and pregnancy. Condoms are only 85% effective at preventing pregnancy, and they do not **prevent ** STDs they only slow (not eliminate) the spread of STDs.

So, condoms are really like taking a gun and putting 2 bullets in the chamber. Would you pull the trigger? 85% of the time you’ll be OK but the what about other 15%?

Some people who use condoms get pregnant. Some people who use condoms get STDs. Therefore, some people who use condoms will get both pregnant and an STD. So, if she really wants to assert that using condoms will prevent some STDs, ask her what she’s going to say to the ones who were convinced by her argument they would be safe and yet have both a pregnancy and an STD. Would she like to be personally responsible for those people? I suspect not, therefore her answer to STDs should be abstinence, not roulette.

Oh, wait, even better… I just read your post where she is in favor of condoms b/c she doesn’t want her future spouse to contract an STD… well, what if HE is in the 15%? He followed her guidelines and she would still wind up with a spouse with an STD. Sounds like she has faulty guidelines. I would say God’s guidelines of abstinence before marriage and fidelity in marriage work much better-- with a 100% effectiveness rate!

 

[lil_lady]

That’s a tough question. If you wait to have sex unti after you are married, and your husband does too, there is no way that you can get STD at all. Like you said, condoms do not work all the time. Their main purpose is to prevent the birth of a baby. Therefore, they are morally wrong becuase the whole reason for having sex is to have a baby. I hope that helps.

 

[1ke]

BLB_Oregon:

Having said that… if a husband has been diagnosed with an STD, and if the only way to hope to prevent his wife from contracting the disease is to use a condom, and if their purpose in using the condom is neither to prevent the transmission of life nor to permit the husband to continue a life of adultery, but to prevent the transmission of disease… in that case, the use of a condom may be allowed as a prudent medical precaution until the husband is no longer contagious. Obviously, the idea would be to abandon the use of the condom as soon as it was medically prudent to do so. (I would think that they could just refrain from sexual activity for the short time it takes to get an initial diagnosis.)

Sorry BLB but the Church has clearly stated what you describe is not permitted.