What to do with Sister-in-Law

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Lost_Sheep

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First of all, I do not mean to be unkind and uncharitable, but my sister-in-law (wife’s sister) (I’ll call Cindy) has got to be the laziest person in the world. She is 55 years old and still lives with her mother; she has never been out on her own in her life. She has never been married nor has she ever had a boyfriend. She has not had a job to speak of in 30 years.

When she was younger she had a decent state-government job (with benefits, retirement, etc.) as a nursing assistant, but quit because she feared she might contract AIDS. We tried to help her find another job but she even washed out of Fast Food places because she wouldn’t follow instructions, plus, a minimum wage job was “beneath her.”

Having not worked for so long would make it extremely unlikely if not impossible to find a job now. And even if she did, she would have no way to get to work - she doesn’t/can’t/won’t drive because she does not have a driver’s license. We tried to get her driver training years ago, but she didn’t pass the tests. We suspect that she deliberately failed the test because she didn’t want the responsibility that comes with driving and didn’t want to be stuck running errands.

She has no education beyond high school, and lived such a cooped up life that she has no social skills or street-smarts and I doubt she could even survive in the real world. Her only social circle is the old biddies her mother knows at their small (Byzantine Catholic) church; she dresses like them, does her hair and makeup like them and if you didn’t know better you’d think she is as old as they are. I will give her credit for being devoutly faithful but only because it does not require much effort.

Her mother is almost 90 years old and is in declining health and the question is, what will happen to Cindy when her mother dies. My wife adamantly refuses to let her come live with us and her two brothers also feel the same way. If she were disabled or a special-needs person that might be one thing, but she is perfectly capable of carrying her own weight; she just refuses to do so and plays dumb whenever she is given any kind of task in order to get someone else to do it for her.

So, what will become of her when her mother dies? I even suggested of sending her to a convent but even convents won’t take you these days if you don’t have a college degree. Don’t suggest we have a change of heart and take her into our home. My wife’s family was always the type who feel people should fend for themselves and not freeload on others so that is clearly not an option. She won’t consider some type of a group home because she’s afraid she’d get raped. :rolleyes:

What to do, what to do… 🤷

Thoughts?
 
Have you spoken to “Cindy” about your concerns? Has she given any thought to what she’ll do when mom passes?

All I can recommend is that you do your best to help her get on her feet without enabling her current, lazy, lifestyle. Continue to try to help her get a driver’s license and a job. But, I would make it clear that, while you’re happy to help her where you can, you will not give her money. At some point, she’s going to have to be responsible for herself.
 
Will she inherit anything from her mother? Money, the house? If not, that is a problem–for her. It may be that she is lazy. But, she may also have a psychological disorder. In any case, she’s an able-bodied adult, who, when her mother dies, will have to make some hard choices. I have a feeling she will find someone who will take her in–maybe one of her mother’s friends. People who are good at getting others to do things for them usually find someone who will do so. She’s not your responsibility unless she is ill. I doubt she’d consent to seeing a psychologist, but it sounds to me like she needs one ASAP.
 
I will suggest you do what Suze Ormon suggested on her show when someone called in with a similar situation.

Suze suggested that the family do an intervention now, not when the mother dies. She suggested they put together info on how much it costs to live-- housing, food, transportation, savings for retirement, insurance, etc-- resources for financial/budget counseling, and an explanation of what they will/will not do when the time comes.

For example, you could say: You need to take responsibility for yourself. Here is $3K we as your siblings will pay to the community college to help you take classes to brush up your skills and become employable in the next year. This is it, no help will be given when mother dies. If you blow through the inheritance, if there is one, you are on your own. You will not live with us. We will not support you monetarily. You are able bodied and need to be ready to support yourself.
 
1ke said:
I will suggest you do what Suze Ormon suggested on her show when someone called in with a similar situation.

Suze suggested that the family do an intervention now, not when the mother dies. She suggested they put together info on how much it costs to live-- housing, food, transportation, savings for retirement, insurance, etc-- resources for financial/budget counseling, and an explanation of what they will/will not do when the time comes.

For example, you could say: You need to take responsibility for yourself. Here is $3K we as your siblings will pay to the community college to help you take classes to brush up your skills and become employable in the next year. This is it, no help will be given when mother dies. If you blow through the inheritance, if there is one, you are on your own. You will not live with us. We will not support you monetarily. You are able bodied and need to be ready to support yourself.
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It is worthwhile for her sisters to do an “intervention” in the sense of being very clear that their sister will be responsible for herself when their mother dies, and that “if anyone was unwilling to work, neither should that one eat.” (2 Thes. 3:10)

Still, this person sounds as if she suffers from something deeper than mere indolence (although she may indeed be lazy, as well). When the OP said, “I will give her credit for being devoutly faithful but only because it does not require much effort,” I thought that perhaps it may be that her life of devotion doesn’t take a lot of risk. It may provide a “flock” for her to hide in. Dressing in a sloppy manner is easy; dressing like the older ladies you spend your time with may feel safe. IOW, this person sounds as if she is almost pathologically risk-averse. That is a little different than being the guy who lives in his mother’s basement, watches TV all day, and can’t be bothered to bathe or shave regularly, or the woman who is a gold-digger looking for a husband who will keep her in a life with no employment. Cindy doesn’t just want to live without working. Cindy seems to want to live without being noticed and without taking any chances. That makes the problem into another ball of wax. This may be a psychological issue, or it may just be a bad habit she’s allowed herself to get into and make some profit from. Still–who among us would pay the “price” for that “profit”?

It may be possible that your family can get her pastor to help with assessing Cindy’s problem, as well as carrying out the intervention. The younger ones among the ladies at church may be able to get Cindy going with volunteer work, to get her used to working. Who knows…this is something that those who know and love Cindy the best might be able to work out by comparing notes and forming a united front for Cindy’s sake. What she will be when she becomes the best version of herself possible in this life is yet to unfold.
 
EasterJoy said:
It is worthwhile for her sisters to do an “intervention” in the sense of being very clear that their sister will be responsible for herself when their mother dies, and that “if anyone was unwilling to work, neither should that one eat.” (2 Thes. 3:10)

Still, this person sounds as if she suffers from something deeper than mere indolence (although she may indeed be lazy, as well). When the OP said, “I will give her credit for being devoutly faithful but only because it does not require much effort,” I thought that perhaps it may be that her life of devotion doesn’t take a lot of risk. It may provide a “flock” for her to hide in. Dressing in a sloppy manner is easy; dressing like the older ladies you spend your time with may feel safe. IOW, this person sounds as if she is almost pathologically risk-averse. That is a little different than being the guy who lives in his mother’s basement, watches TV all day, and can’t be bothered to bathe or shave regularly, or the woman who is a gold-digger looking for a husband who will keep her in a life with no employment. Cindy doesn’t just want to live without working. Cindy seems to want to live without being noticed and without taking any chances. That makes the problem into another ball of wax. This may be a psychological issue, or it may just be a bad habit she’s allowed herself to get into and make some profit from. Still–who among us would pay the “price” for that “profit”?

It may be possible that your family can get her pastor to help with assessing Cindy’s problem, as well as carrying out the intervention. The younger ones among the ladies at church may be able to get Cindy going with volunteer work, to get her used to working. Who knows…this is something that those who know and love Cindy the best might be able to work out by comparing notes and forming a united front for Cindy’s sake. What she will be when she becomes the best version of herself possible in this life is yet to unfold.
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👍👍:):gopray:
 
There’s no sensitive way to say this but…this isn’t your problem. What’s going to happen is going to happen. Enableing her further isn’t going to help the situation. Someday soon, she may be getting a wake-up call, that’s all. Happens to everyone sooner and later.
 
Lost_Sheep said:
…My wife’s family was always the type who feel people should fend for themselves and not freeload on others …
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The above seems to contradict the rest of your post, so perhaps something is going on with Cindy that you don’t know about? Perhaps there is some reason for her limitations?

In any event, I would bring it up now with Cindy and your mother-in-law while something can still be done to provide for Cindy in the future so that it does not all fall in your lap later. Seems that time is short and it may be a bit late to plan, but at least get reality out there in the open to be considered. Somebody has to provide for Cindy and that needs to be considered now.
 
Perhaps adult guardianship or conservatorship is in Cindy’s future. If Cindy cannot function on her own and family cannot help, then a judge may appoint a conservator for her. This person would help with finances, medical and personal care. But, I think a group home and state aid might be part of that scenario if Cindy is unable to function on her own for whatever reason.
 
i sympathize with your situation. you want to help but you dont’ want to enable her; i definitely know the feeling. but as others have said, i suspect that is more to it then her just being lazy. at least that’s what it seems like anyways because this type of behaviour just simply isn’t normal. when you said it wouldn’t be different if she were disabled or has special needs, i can tell you first hand that even us disabled people generally aren’t like that. we also want to be out helping and doing things in whatever way we can. so i thik this is a more serious problem than just that. i think your first step is definitely to talk to her and also your mother-in-law. maybe also discuss with your parish priest; perhaps he will have some ideas? in the meantime, i will pray for you and for her
 
I too think there may be either a psychological issue or perhaps a personality disorder.
 
Lost_Sheep said:
Her mother is almost 90 years old and is in declining health and the question is, what will happen to Cindy when her mother dies. My wife adamantly refuses to let her come live with us and her two brothers also feel the same way.

So, what will become of her when her mother dies?
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Has your wife and her brothers said, "Hey Sis, Mom’s not doing too well. She’s getting pretty old. What are your plans when Mom dies? Where are you going to live? How are you going to pay your bills?

Your wife and her brothers need to tell Cindy today that none of them are opening up their home for her to live.

Do the “old biddies” at her church know she might be at a loss for living arrangements when her mom dies?
 
Thank you all for your responses. Here’s my responses to some of you but I think I covered anything.
aeroengr said:
Have you spoken to “Cindy” about your concerns? Has she given any thought to what she’ll do when mom passes?
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Many, many times. It’s as though she lives in her own little fantasy world and is completely oblivious to that fact. She is in complete denial of that reality.
Della said:
Will she inherit anything from her mother? Money, the house? If not, that is a problem–for her. It may be that she is lazy. But, she may also have a psychological disorder. In any case, she’s an able-bodied adult, who, when her mother dies, will have to make some hard choices. I have a feeling she will find someone who will take her in–maybe one of her mother’s friends. People who are good at getting others to do things for them usually find someone who will do so. She’s not your responsibility unless she is ill. I doubt she’d consent to seeing a psychologist, but it sounds to me like she needs one ASAP.
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Her brothers have promised to give their shares of the estate to her but that won’t last her forever. She would never be able to maintain the house herself so it would have to be sold. She has no psychological disorders (no depression, mental retardation, etc.). Her one brother is a psychologist and says there is nothing wrong with her.
Monicad said:
A woman who totally checks out from life, has never dated, has no job, no children, no friends, no driver’s license, no interests and is paranoid about AIDS and getting raped in a group home doesn’t sound like someone that is fully capable of much of anything.
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That’s part of the problem. She has become a victim of herself. Years ago, she might have made something of herself but because she has cloistered herself for so long, her life skills have deteriorated to the point of non existence. Her siblings have tried the intervention thing before but she puts up a fight and continues to be in denial.
Allegra said:
There’s no sensitive way to say this but…this isn’t your problem. What’s going to happen is going to happen. Enableing her further isn’t going to help the situation. Someday soon, she may be getting a wake-up call, that’s all. Happens to everyone sooner and later.
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No, it really isn’t “my” problem, but it is my wife’s problem sort of. Even though my wife and I are pretty much on the same page with this, she feels somewhat guilty just turning her back on her sister. Yeah, I say throw her to the sharks and she either sinks or swims.
 
Lost_Sheep said:
Thank you all for your responses. Here’s my responses to some of you but I think I covered anything.

Many, many times. It’s as though she lives in her own little fantasy world and is completely oblivious to that fact. She is in complete denial of that reality.

Her brothers have promised to give their shares of the estate to her but that won’t last her forever. She would never be able to maintain the house herself so it would have to be sold. She has no psychological disorders (no depression, mental retardation, etc.). Her one brother is a psychologist and says there is nothing wrong with her.

That’s part of the problem. She has become a victim of herself. Years ago, she might have made something of herself but because she has cloistered herself for so long, her life skills have deteriorated to the point of non existence. Her siblings have tried the intervention thing before but she puts up a fight and continues to be in denial.

No, it really isn’t “my” problem, but it is my wife’s problem sort of. Even though my wife and I are pretty much on the same page with this, she feels somewhat guilty just turning her back on her sister. Yeah, I say throw her to the sharks and she either sinks or swims.
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If her brother has professional experience in this kind of a thing, I’d let him take the lead on it. I might change my tack on explaining the choice to your wife of expecting her sister to take care of herself. It is not “throwing her to the sharks”. It is denying her a near occasion of sin, when the only alternative is to support her in sinful idleness. She has the responsibility to take care of herself, being in the situation of one who, if she won’t work, ought not eat.

I like to say that guilt is like a smoke detector or a guard dog. They go off by mistake, sometimes. When they go off, we investigate. When they are in error, we turn our attention to getting the detector to quiet down, rather than looking incessantly for a threat that is not there. Once your wife and her siblings have made a good-faith effort to rule out problems with their sister that would remove her responsibility to take care of herself, they have a responsibility to insist that she take care of herself. Just because it is hard does not mean it is the wrong thing to do.
 
To me, the woman sounds like she suffers from a mental illness.

One of my best friends has schizophrenia. She was fine in high school, very intelligent and energetic. She started manifesting symptoms in college, and eventually developed full-blown schizophrenia. At first no one knew what was going on. She went through 40 jobs, usually lasting only a few days or a few hours on each job before getting fired. She was addicted to cigarettes and soda (she’ll smoke a whole pack in a half hour, and drink a six pack of soda in an hour).

Her despairing parents kicked her out of their house, not realizing that their daughter had a mental illness. After several weeks on the streets, she was directed to the local mental health agency. They were able to place her in a local adult group home and provide treatment, including meds and cognitive therapy. She has worked her way up in the system and now lives in an apartment with a roommate, but the apartments are in a group home run by the agency. I have visited her weekly for over 20 years. She is able to go out to dinner with me once a week, but would never be able to live “in the community” on her own.

Her parents provided a trust fund to support her after they died. Both of them have passed on, and my friend is supported by the government and by this trust fund from her good parents.

Doesn’t this sound like the OP’s sister-in-law?

I would suggest that the OP and his wife contact the local mental health agencies and have their sister evaluated. If she qualifies, she will hopefully be directed into the housing options available for someone with her condition. (Possibly, since she already has a home, she’ll stay there until her mother has passed away.)

I would not recommend taking the SIL home. If she is mentally ill, she needs help (meds and therapy).

Just keep in mind that it’s unlikely that someone who has suffered from a mental illness for several decades will “get better” and be able to hold down a job, live on her own, support herself, drive, etc. So your options are as follows: (1) Ignore her and eventually, she’ll be out on the streets, easy prey for criminals (2) take her into your own home, but since you don’t know how to care for someone like her, your family may end up suffering or even imploding (3) work with local mental health agencies to find the best care option for her.

I hope this post is thought-provoking and helpful.
 
Cat said:
To me, the woman sounds like she suffers from a mental illness.

One of my best friends has schizophrenia. She was fine in high school, very intelligent and energetic. She started manifesting symptoms in college, and eventually developed full-blown schizophrenia. At first no one knew what was going on. She went through 40 jobs, usually lasting only a few days or a few hours on each job before getting fired. She was addicted to cigarettes and soda (she’ll smoke a whole pack in a half hour, and drink a six pack of soda in an hour).

Her despairing parents kicked her out of their house, not realizing that their daughter had a mental illness. After several weeks on the streets, she was directed to the local mental health agency. They were able to place her in a local adult group home and provide treatment, including meds and cognitive therapy. She has worked her way up in the system and now lives in an apartment with a roommate, but the apartments are in a group home run by the agency. I have visited her weekly for over 20 years. She is able to go out to dinner with me once a week, but would never be able to live “in the community” on her own.

Her parents provided a trust fund to support her after they died. Both of them have passed on, and my friend is supported by the government and by this trust fund from her good parents.

Doesn’t this sound like the OP’s sister-in-law?

I would suggest that the OP and his wife contact the local mental health agencies and have their sister evaluated. If she qualifies, she will hopefully be directed into the housing options available for someone with her condition. (Possibly, since she already has a home, she’ll stay there until her mother has passed away.)

I would not recommend taking the SIL home. If she is mentally ill, she needs help (meds and therapy).

Just keep in mind that it’s unlikely that someone who has suffered from a mental illness for several decades will “get better” and be able to hold down a job, live on her own, support herself, drive, etc. So your options are as follows: (1) Ignore her and eventually, she’ll be out on the streets, easy prey for criminals (2) take her into your own home, but since you don’t know how to care for someone like her, your family may end up suffering or even imploding (3) work with local mental health agencies to find the best care option for her.

I hope this post is thought-provoking and helpful.
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I think this is a very good summation. 👍👍
 
Cat said:
To me, the woman sounds like she suffers from a mental illness.

One of my best friends has schizophrenia. She was fine in high school, very intelligent and energetic. She started manifesting symptoms in college, and eventually developed full-blown schizophrenia. At first no one knew what was going on. She went through 40 jobs, usually lasting only a few days or a few hours on each job before getting fired. She was addicted to cigarettes and soda (she’ll smoke a whole pack in a half hour, and drink a six pack of soda in an hour).

Her despairing parents kicked her out of their house, not realizing that their daughter had a mental illness. After several weeks on the streets, she was directed to the local mental health agency. They were able to place her in a local adult group home and provide treatment, including meds and cognitive therapy. She has worked her way up in the system and now lives in an apartment with a roommate, but the apartments are in a group home run by the agency. I have visited her weekly for over 20 years. She is able to go out to dinner with me once a week, but would never be able to live “in the community” on her own.

Her parents provided a trust fund to support her after they died. Both of them have passed on, and my friend is supported by the government and by this trust fund from her good parents.

Doesn’t this sound like the OP’s sister-in-law?

I would suggest that the OP and his wife contact the local mental health agencies and have their sister evaluated. If she qualifies, she will hopefully be directed into the housing options available for someone with her condition. (Possibly, since she already has a home, she’ll stay there until her mother has passed away.)

I would not recommend taking the SIL home. If she is mentally ill, she needs help (meds and therapy).

Just keep in mind that it’s unlikely that someone who has suffered from a mental illness for several decades will “get better” and be able to hold down a job, live on her own, support herself, drive, etc. So your options are as follows: (1) Ignore her and eventually, she’ll be out on the streets, easy prey for criminals (2) take her into your own home, but since you don’t know how to care for someone like her, your family may end up suffering or even imploding (3) work with local mental health agencies to find the best care option for her.

I hope this post is thought-provoking and helpful.
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It is possible that the OP’s SIL has a mental illness, but not everyone wasting their life because inertia has been made and option for them has an illness. Sometimes people are stuck in a rut because there is a safe rut to live in. Yes, their abilities do really atrophy, but they are more capable of the work of turning their lives around than someone who truly has less aptitude.

Still, the brother who does counseling for his livelihood might be fairly asked under what circumstances someone like his sister ever turns her life around. It may be that a professional a little less close to her might need to investigate her situation. He might also arrange for someone to do some investigation into how she operates at church. How she continues to act or does not act when family members are not watching might be very telling.

For instance, if her mother is 90 yo, how do the two of them get to Mass? What is the sense of the person who gives them rides? The SIL’s pastor and the people who know her at her church might have insights not available to the family. It is a possibility.
 
I skimmed the thread so if this has already been brought up, my apologies.

How close knit is this circle of “old biddies” you mention? Maybe there are some among them who could really use a younger person living with them and wouldn’t mind the financial imposition. Could be a win-win.

Are the old biddies of a traditional flavor in their crafting abilities? Maybe if she is able to sew, knit, crochet, or otherwise create something that people want, she could sell it online and bring in a little income without having to flaunt those lacking social skills you mentioned.
 
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