What to say, if anything, to my parents

[SighGuy]

I’m 26, sometimes I live at home (my work is seasonal, I often work as a ranger for the National Park Service, so I lack a permanent residence in between other than here), and I have two parents.

My father was raised such that he never speaks about religion, never attends Mass, etc… outside of a funeral or wedding. I’ve asked him, in the presence of my mother, if he believed in God or was Christian. My mother says he’s Catholic but he never answers the questions and I never force the question, but I just move on to something else.

My mother was raised Catholic but had such an upbringing that she ultimately refuses to accept anything of the Catholic Church that she does not want to. She’s in line with a lot of social issues, but when it comes to things like attending Mass, abstinence on Fridays, the authority of the Church, etc… she puts little to no value on it. She insists her relationship with God is very good (she prays often, she’s very caring and she’s certainly done a lot of good works; there are few people that I could claim to be as loving as she is) and that she doesn’t benefit from Mass.

Despite my efforts to show her what the Church says, to ask her whether or not her benefiting from the Mass is really the important thing (she answers that to her it is, it’s not specifically about God because she can worship anywhere, it’s about the experience of the Mass), to ask her if she ought to trust herself more than the Church, to ask her how one can see the importance Jesus put on the Church and yet still deny that it is important, etc… etc… but she will not listen to reason.

Generally she will say “I don’t like debates. You can discuss it all day but it won’t change how I feel. I know in my heart what God wants.”

What do I do? Do I just let it go at that, for both of them?

My mother and I went to All Saint’s Mass today. I was surprised she didn’t go up to receive, though I did not say anything to her about it. I thought maybe it was a breakthrough, until the conversation started all over again and ended in the same place. It’s civil, it’s not an argument and yelling, but it’s not going anywhere.

Do I give up the argument? I already pray, but what else is there to do? I’ve never even tried to engage my father in a serious discussion, I’m almost afraid to- I can’t imagine he would give an answer and I think it would strain our relationship. He knows I’m very religious and he avoids discussing it. I know he’s not ‘just dying to talk to me about it’.

A lot of writing. Sorry. More like venting. I just want someone to say something.

 

[Kelfa28]

I could have written this exact post, in all seriousness.

My father was raised a Methodist but chooses to not speak about God or religion in general. He basically says he doesn’t want to get involved and “what will be, will be.”

My mother was raised in a strict Catholic household. She was an only child and her mother, my Grandmother, was very controlling.
If my mother had a question about religion, such as “why” my grandmother would reply “because that is the way it is.”
End of story, no questions answered. She attended Mass pre-Vatican II and really had no understanding of the faith.

As a result…she moved out at 18 to get away from her mother and, with it, the Church.

My parents have a sacramental marriage. They are still married…30 years later. They baptized my sister and I and made some kind of attempt at raising us Catholic for a few years (until we received communion) but relied on our CCD classes as instruction.

I learned absolutely nothing about the faith. I don’t consider myself a revert. I’m a convert to Catholicism despite my infant baptism.

In my opinion. There isn’t much you can do besides what you are already doing. I wouldn’t press the matter.

I pray for my parents (and everyone else since NO ONE practices their faith in my family on either side or in-laws).
I invite them to Mass with me. They’ve gone to Easter Vigil and usually go to Christmas Mass with us.

I used opportunities to plant seeds whenever I can find them. My sister and her husband recently decided to baptized their son. Neither of them are practicing Catholics. Neither of them have an inclining as to what Christianity is…let alone the depths of Catholicism. I’m not sure how they were able to baptize their son Catholic unless the parish they went to isn’t strict on infant baptism (I suspect so…as the baptism itself lacked an actual Mass).

After the baptism…while everyone either gave cards with money or material gifts (my parents gave my sister new clothes for her son)…I gave a religious toy to my nephew and a copy of the YouCat for my sister and BIL.

Keep praying and keep answering questions that may or may not pop up. Do not press the topic unless prompted.
My husband and I debate quite a bit with my MIL. She is a fallen away Catholic who is now evangelical.
Religion comes up quite often with her. She usually has questions for us or we have questions for her.

My parents aren’t like that. It’s a different animal when it comes to religion. They aren’t keen to debate anything.
I plant seeds in a different way. If my mom brings up some of her New Age ideas with Yoga, Reiki, or Nia classes I have to remind her of what I believe and why it’s inappropriate.
She has wanted to try out Reiki on me and wanted her toddler grand daughter to partake in the Yoga and Nia classes that she teaches.
I’ve had to tell her no and explain why.

I’ve had to tell her not to receive communion if she goes to Mass with us unless she’s gone to confession and means it.

It’s tough…but it’s the only way I know how to broach the subject of Catholicism with my parents.
Anything else will fall on deaf ears and be seen as meddling.

 

[SighGuy]

Thank you both for taking the time to read that and answer. I’ve just been a bit upset and came here to vent and ask for someone to read.

I should have addressed that in my post, Monicad, whoops! My mother sometimes attends church. She’s been going here and there to find one she likes, but she doesn’t like any of them, really, except for where we lived when I was young and that’s 45 minutes away.

I am not sure if it’s habit or obedience. Lately it’s because of me. “You know it’s Sunday, right?” “Hey, did you know there’s a holy day of obligation coming up?” “I know you’re going out of town for the weekend, but did you see if there was a Catholic church there?”

Kelfa, wow, you sound just like me! My mother’s side of the family is half apostate, some to greater extents than others, abandoning the Church for a spouse or just getting into outside stuff (reiki, non-denominational spiritualism, reincarnation, etc…) but my mom is the least of these.

I have a feeling that exhortations are just going to fall flat, and that seems to be what you’re telling me (is this correct?) Perhaps the “plant seeds” approach will benefit. I guess I can always just offer a ride to Mass and leave my own sermon out of it.

 

[Kelfa28]

Kelfa, wow, you sound just like me! My mother’s side of the family is half apostate, some to greater extents than others, abandoning the Church for a spouse or just getting into outside stuff (reiki, non-denominational spiritualism, reincarnation, etc…) but my mom is the least of these.

I have a feeling that exhortations are just going to fall flat, and that seems to be what you’re telling me (is this correct?) Perhaps the “plant seeds” approach will benefit. I guess I can always just offer a ride to Mass and leave my own sermon out of it.

Yeah, I’d definitely leave out the sermon. Just say a prayer of thanks that they are actually coming to Mass with you.

Hubby and I are getting kind of good at this just because our lives are loaded with baptized Catholics who have fallen far, far away from the faith.

Openly and constantly proselytizing the faith just doesn’t work unless we are asked about it. People just don’t want to hear it. They certainly don’t want to hear it over and over again. I’ve learned that living the faith and being the best Catholic example you can be is far more effective.

Of course, if the tough questions come up…answer them. If a situation arises…ask the tough questions.
The whole baptism thing with my sister was a big way for me to demonstrate why I believe what I believe.
I confronted my sister and my mother about their belief in God and who they thought Jesus was…just to open their eyes.

You never know what will happen. The wife of a friend of my husband was complaining that she wanted to get her children baptized Catholic but was still on the fence about a lot of things.
We suggested she come to Mass with us, if she wanted, that Sunday. She shrugged and gave a non-committed answer of “I dunno, maybe, we’ll see.”
Imagine our surprise when she showed up at our doorstep minutes before we were leaving for Mass with her kids in tow.
She hasn’t been with us since…but it’s a start.

Even my sister baptizing her son is a small start. She was absolutely repulsed by the idea of organized religion for a while…but something changed her tune. She claims she never would have considered not baptizing her son (I know she isn’t totally telling the truth based on conversations we’ve had that she has clearly forgotten about).

Remember to be positive about it and not negative or accusatory. Ask if they want to go to Church with you…every Sunday if possible. My MIL and I also have a habit of sending religious gifts to people who have expressed an interest in the faith…for birthdays and Christmas and such.
I think the two of us are in slight competition with each other in that regard…

 

[robwar]

I’m 26, sometimes I live at home (my work is seasonal, I often work as a ranger for the National Park Service, so I lack a permanent residence in between other than here), and I have two parents.

My father was raised such that he never speaks about religion, never attends Mass, etc… outside of a funeral or wedding. I’ve asked him, in the presence of my mother, if he believed in God or was Christian. My mother says he’s Catholic but he never answers the questions and I never force the question, but I just move on to something else.

My mother was raised Catholic but had such an upbringing that she ultimately refuses to accept anything of the Catholic Church that she does not want to. She’s in line with a lot of social issues, but when it comes to things like attending Mass, abstinence on Fridays, the authority of the Church, etc… she puts little to no value on it. She insists her relationship with God is very good (she prays often, she’s very caring and she’s certainly done a lot of good works; there are few people that I could claim to be as loving as she is) and that she doesn’t benefit from Mass.

Despite my efforts to show her what the Church says, to ask her whether or not her benefiting from the Mass is really the important thing (she answers that to her it is, it’s not specifically about God because she can worship anywhere, it’s about the experience of the Mass), to ask her if she ought to trust herself more than the Church, to ask her how one can see the importance Jesus put on the Church and yet still deny that it is important, etc… etc… but she will not listen to reason.

Generally she will say “I don’t like debates. You can discuss it all day but it won’t change how I feel. I know in my heart what God wants.”

What do I do? Do I just let it go at that, for both of them?

My mother and I went to All Saint’s Mass today. I was surprised she didn’t go up to receive, though I did not say anything to her about it. I thought maybe it was a breakthrough, until the conversation started all over again and ended in the same place. It’s civil, it’s not an argument and yelling, but it’s not going anywhere.

Do I give up the argument? I already pray, but what else is there to do? I’ve never even tried to engage my father in a serious discussion, I’m almost afraid to- I can’t imagine he would give an answer and I think it would strain our relationship. He knows I’m very religious and he avoids discussing it. I know he’s not ‘just dying to talk to me about it’.

A lot of writing. Sorry. More like venting. I just want someone to say something.

the best thing for you to do now is stop talking to them about practicing their faith. You have talked to them, and they know what you think and how you feel. I would focus on praying for them and living your life as a silent witness of love and care for them. St. Francis said preach always, use words only if you have to. So with that in mind, don’t use the words, and use your actions to speak to them. Sometimes, parent are not interested in hearing from their children (yes I know you are now an adult) about what they are doing wrong with their faith. Back off and keep praying.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

…but she will not listen to reason.

You can discuss it all day but it won’t change how I feel. I know in my heart what God wants."
(

It seems she is one of those people who don’t listen to reason and rely on their feelings to validate their desires. Her desire is to not be obedient to the church, but to herself.

You can talk to her on occasion but don’t push it. Show the holes in her belief system in a respectful way (as you have been doing) and pray that she acquires the intellectual honesty to acknowledge them.

 

[EasterJoy]

the best thing for you to do now is stop talking to them about practicing their faith. You have talked to them, and they know what you think and how you feel. I would focus on praying for them and living your life as a silent witness of love and care for them. St. Francis said preach always, use words only if you have to. So with that in mind, don’t use the words, and use your actions to speak to them. Sometimes, parent are not interested in hearing from their children (yes I know you are now an adult) about what they are doing wrong with their faith. Back off and keep praying.

Inviting them to come along is a good thing. Thanking them for having you baptized is a good thing.

As it turns out, the “preach always” thing was not said by St. Francis. Someone made that up. St. Francis preached with words a lot. It would also be hard to say that his deeds were not of the in-your-face variety, on the preaching front.

St. Francis famously had a very serious and public falling-out with his father, a falling-out that has aspects that are better avoided. In order to get funds needed to rebuild the church he believed God wanted him to rebuild, Francis stole a horse and a bolt of cloth from his rich father. His father went to the local bishop for a judgment, and the bishop told Francis that the stolen items had to be returned to his father. Francis ripped off his clothes then and there and passed them, along with the money, back to his father! He declared that God was the only father he recognized, and there is no record of any further communication between the two of them.

That was the charism of St. Francis (but not stealing his dad’s stuff!) The OP will grow to find his own charism, his own way of reflecting the Gospel back to his parents and others. That might include deciding not to throw pearls before swine and to avoid a witness that will realistically cause strife but win no converts. It might include bringing the subject up rather often.

The thing to keep in mind is the rule Jesus lived by: “I cannot do anything on my own; I judge as I hear, and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will but the will of the one who sent me." John 5:30 Listen continually for the prompting of the Holy Spirit, ask continually for the help of the Holy Spirit, and then be willing to speak or be silent or to act or refrain from acting as God dictates. This is what Jesus did; this is what he sent his apostles out to do. Use that quote as your guide, and the guides it will lead you to use habitually.

 

[EasterJoy]

It seems she is one of those people who don’t listen to reason and rely on their feelings to validate their desires. Her desire is to not be obedient to the church, but to herself.

You can talk to her on occasion but don’t push it. Show the holes in her belief system in a respectful way (as you have been doing) and pray that she acquires the intellectual honesty to acknowledge them.

It is hard to know what really motivates a person, even when they voluntarily relate it, which people seldom do. It is better to correct actions (or inactions) and to impute at least some possibility of good motives if a guess is ventured about what prompted misguided actions.

For instance, if someone claims they feel they get nothing from Mass or that they are scandalized by going to Mass, it is OK to believe their report. That can be done without giving in to the premise that the answer to their disconnection is to capitulate to the distressing symptom instead of addressing it. If someone says, “I get nothing out of Mass”, what good does it say to respond with “oh yes you do”? Wouldn’t it be better to say, “I’m sorry to hear you feel that way, because the Mass is one of the great treasures of life. What can be done to help you feel and experience what we know it to be?..”

Sometimes reminding people of their duty is enough, but sometimes more persistence is required. Sometimes patience is required. (We all remember St. Monica!)

My brothers, if anyone among you should stray from the truth and someone bring him back, he should know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

As Mother Teresa apparently did say: God has not called me to be successful; He has called me to be faithful.

Still, Jesus sent them out two-by-two and told them to shake the dust from their feet and move on when a town would not hear them. He told them not to toss pearls before swine. Preaching the Gospel isn’t something that can be forced on people not ready to hear it. There has to be a balance between persistence and discernment of whether anyone wants to hear.

 

[Kal2012]

Live your faith. Show them that being faithful is worth the effort.

You need to meet your parents where they are in their faith, instead of expecting them to change.

For example, I wish my husband would go to mass w/me, but I don’t push it. He tells me that faith really isn’t that important to him, so there’s not a real motivation for him to change his habits. The major reason why he has any interest in church is the fact that I converted this Easter and now our son is in CEC. Other than that, it’s not important to him.

Also, why is it surprising that she didn’t receive? If she hasn’t gone to Mass or confession in a while, then it sounds like she has a lot of respect for the process and intent of the Eucharist. When my husband goes to Mass with me (which is rare), he doesn’t receive either. He’ll say that he hasn’t gone to Confession and that it’s not his place to participate. It sounds like she has plenty of respect for the rules, even if she doesn’t want to participate in the church. Don’t be so harsh in your judgment.

A lot of people have been hurt in their relationship to the Church and have a hard time going back. Some people find the mass to be more about the routine than an experience with Jesus. They find their priests to be less than inspiring when it comes to their homilies. It drives me nuts when priests just ramble all over the place and you’re sitting in the pew going, “what was that? How did he get from point A to point B? I’m paying attention and I don’t get it! How can I not get what he’s trying to say because my primary language is English and I know he’s speaking English!”

Give mom and dad some slack. Pray, invite them to church. Just don’t force the issue.

Let the Holy Spirit do some of the work of helping your parents, instead of thinking you need to do all the work.

 

[Irishmom2]

the best thing for you to do now is stop talking to them about practicing their faith. You have talked to them, and they know what you think and how you feel. I would focus on praying for them and living your life as a silent witness of love and care for them. St. Francis said preach always, use words only if you have to. So with that in mind, don’t use the words, and use your actions to speak to them. Sometimes, parent are not interested in hearing from their children (yes I know you are now an adult) about what they are doing wrong with their faith. Back off and keep praying.

Whether St. Francis actually said it or not, , still excellent advice.

 

[EasterJoy]

Whether St. Francis actually said it or not, , still excellent advice.

I mean only that the plain sense of Scriptures doesn’t put words at such a disadvantage. What was Pentecost, if not a miracle of words?

*For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” But how can they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how can they believe in him of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach? And how can people preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring the good news!” But not everyone has heeded the good news; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what was heard from us?” Thus faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ. * Rom. 10:13-17

And of course I think we know what St. James had to say about faith without works. It takes both–sometimes one more than the other, but always both. So while there is a time to realize that it is better to put a hold on words, it is not a good general rule that words are to be avoided whenever possible. Discernment about when to speak out and when to let the words wait is more subtle than that.

 

[robwar]

Inviting them to come along is a good thing. Thanking them for having you baptized is a good thing.

As it turns out, the “preach always” thing was not said by St. Francis. Someone made that up. St. Francis preached with words a lot. It would also be hard to say that his deeds were not of the in-your-face variety, on the preaching front.

St. Francis famously had a very serious and public falling-out with his father, a falling-out that has aspects that are better avoided. In order to get funds needed to rebuild the church he believed God wanted him to rebuild, Francis stole a horse and a bolt of cloth from his rich father. His father went to the local bishop for a judgment, and the bishop told Francis that the stolen items had to be returned to his father. Francis ripped off his clothes then and there and passed them, along with the money, back to his father! He declared that God was the only father he recognized, and there is no record of any further communication between the two of them.

That was the charism of St. Francis (but not stealing his dad’s stuff!) The OP will grow to find his own charism, his own way of reflecting the Gospel back to his parents and others. That might include deciding not to throw pearls before swine and to avoid a witness that will realistically cause strife but win no converts. It might include bringing the subject up rather often.

The thing to keep in mind is the rule Jesus lived by: “I cannot do anything on my own; I judge as I hear, and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will but the will of the one who sent me." John 5:30 Listen continually for the prompting of the Holy Spirit, ask continually for the help of the Holy Spirit, and then be willing to speak or be silent or to act or refrain from acting as God dictates. This is what Jesus did; this is what he sent his apostles out to do. Use that quote as your guide, and the guides it will lead you to use habitually.

You missed my point, whether he actually said it or not, Op would do better to back off and try to influence his parents by praying for them and showing his faith and commitment other ways than trying to reason with them or arguing with them. I think his parent are typical parents in that they probably are not interested in listening to their children about how or what they are doing in the practice or lack there of. THAT was my point and I have seen others on CAF quote St. Francis in this matter.