What to say to my friend

[SeekerJen]

Hi, all.

I’ve been worried lately about my dear friend. She’s nearly 30 but since she’s started grad school with a lot of 22 and 23-year-olds, she’s reverted back to the wild college party girl mentality. She doesn’t drink, but she’s started dressing in rather poor taste and is fooling around on first dates rather indiscriminately. She’s also become very interested in status, only wanting the “hot” guys with money and a good social position- not that they stick around.

Here’s my dilemma: she’s a Catholic, and I think that in her heart she doesn’t believe what she does with all of these guys is wrong, since she’s not actually having intercourse (she wants to remain a “virgin” until marriage). She’ll meet up with a guy, go on a date, and then end up in bed with him. She’s then confused and hurt later when he’s no longer interested.

I’ve tried explaining to her nicely that the guys got what they were after, and decent guys wouldn’t want their dates to put out on the first date (because if she’ll do it for him, how many others did she do it for?). I’ve also tried explaining to her that up to this point, she’s been very lucky in that she hasn’t been raped and she hasn’t gotten a disease. I’ve told her that next time she shuts herself up in a room with a guy she’s just met, he might not take “no” for an answer.

She admits that she knows all of this, that I’m right, etc., but I get the impression that she’s proud to be the “wild girl” and enjoys the bragging rights and the short-lived fun. So do I just butt out until she’s done with grad school, has a job and grows up again, or do I say something else? I don’t really know how to approach this from a faith perspective, because she’s from the “birth-control Catholic” mentality and attends a very liberal parish. I’ll keep praying for her regardless. I just don’t know how much more of this I can listen to. I’m both upset with her and afraid for her.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

for what it’s worth, i don’t think you hit the nail on the head concerning why the guy’s not interested later. if a guy is the type of guy who would get into a bed with a girl on the first date, he’s the type of guy that wants intercourse on the first date, and doesn’t mind girls who do. once he gets in bed with the girl, he stops believing anything that has been said about ‘no intercourse’ and starts hoping that she’s just all talk. when he winds up getting a cheap substitute for the intercourse, he realizes that if he hangs out with her that all he’ll ever get. so he dumps her, goes back to the bar and finds some other girl that’s not so twisted. the other girls may be slutty and not marrying material, but they are straightforward. a guy who jumps in bed on the first date is not looking to get married.

you are seeing outward signs of a broken interior. there aren’t any social answers to spiritual questions. try to work on her faith and she’ll take care of her behavior. if she doesn’t believe in the dignity of a person redeemed by Jesus, she’s not going change into a person redeemed by Jesus. it is hard to watch and there are risks for her. be her spiritual confidante and you might find the root of the problem.

other than that, i have no idea what to do.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

JustSomeGuy:

other than that, i have no idea what to do.

Dude you said a lot of truth.

When I was in college there was hardly a more rewarding conquest than a woman who boasted about her virginity but allowed herself to be alone with a dog like me. If she came to our frat parties and drank beer, it was like taking candy from a baby.

Looking back I can see how destructive that all was, and I thank God for ultimately giving me a wonderful wife and six beautiful children to try to straighten me out. I definitely teach my daughters some pretty advanced techniques at how to stay safe from creeps. For example, I found audio recordings of seminars for men on how to psychologically seduce women and began teaching my girls effective countermeasures. I also have sat with them while they were on instant message chat and advised them on how to verbally interact with young men who were dating them or who wished to date them. I also published a set of rules for dating my daughters on my blog site where I keep in touch with my kids and their friends, intended to warn young men with impure intentions. I also posted them at wordsfree.org/datingrules.html for public consumption.

Alan

 

[DVIN_CKS]

Loved the rules Alan!!

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Dear SeekerJen,

I just got a very timely email that addresses this exact subject, and how “polite” men feel about it when they are led on in the bedroom and then told to stop. It is intended to be funny, but it shows a male’s point of view very well.

When I say “polite” I mean a man who will take “no” for an answer, at least as a temporary setback, and not proceed unless he can get her to change her mind about it. Think most men aren’t like that? Tell your friend she has been warned and is operating at her own risk. She who has ears, let her hear.
Email antecdote (joke):

I never quite figured out why the sexual urge of men and women differ so much. And I never have figured out the whole Venus and Mars thing. I have never figured out why men think with their head and women with their heart.

FOR EXAMPLE: One evening last week, my girlfriend and I were getting into bed. Well, the passion starts to heat up, and she eventually says “I don’t feel like it, I just want you to hold me.”

I said “WHAT??!! What was that?!”

So she says the words that every boyfriend on the planet dreads to hear… “You’re just not in touch with my emotional needs as a woman enough for me to satisfy your physical needs as a man.” She responded to my puzzled look by saying, “Can’t you just love me for who I am and not what I do for you in the bedroom?”

Realizing that nothing was going to happen that night, I went to sleep. The very next day I opted to take the day off of work to spend time with her. We went out to a nice lunch and then went shopping at a big, big unnamed department store. I walked around with her while she tried on several different very expensive outfits.

She couldn’t decide which one to take so I told her we’d just buy them all. She wanted new shoes to compliment her new clothes, so I said lets get a pair for each outfit. We went onto the jewelry department where she picked out a pair of diamond earrings. Let me tell you…she was so excited. She must have thought I was one wave short of a shipwreck. I started to think she was testing me because she asked for a tennis bracelet when she doesn’t even know how to play tennis. I think I threw her for a loop when I said, “That’s fine, honey.”

She was almost nearing sexual satisfaction from all of the excitement. Smiling with excited anticipation she finally said, “I think this is all dear, let’s go to the cashier.”

I could hardly contain myself when I blurted out, “No honey, I don’t feel like it.”

Her face just went completely blank as her jaw dropped with a baffled “WHAT?”

I then said “honey! I just want you to HOLD this stuff for a while. You’re just not in touch with my financial needs as a man enough for me to satisfy your shopping needs as a woman.” And just when she had this look like she was going to kill me, I added, “Why can’t you just love me for who I am and not for the things I buy you?”

I’m not trying to be crude or cute here; I’m just trying to give you something that will help your friend see that she is playing with fire when she plays the role of what we used to call at “PT” which is an acronym roughly meaning “big tease.”

Alan

 

[tradcatmel]

Does your friend realise that she is committing fornication? (if she is actually sleeping with these men?)

Does she know that its wrong and she is doing it anyway, she is comitting mortal sin?

Does she know that if she died tomorrow she would go to hell for all eternity?

I would tell her that I care for her as a friend, but it is her soul that I care about the most. I would say, do you know if you don’t stop doing these things with these men, that you may lose your soul? I would consider mentioning that she needs to go to confession and stop living this sinful life.

That is a gentle way of putting it.

If you are not certain about how to deal with the situation, the amount of advice you get on here, may just confuse you.

Maybe you should talk to your priest - he often is the best one who can evaluate the whole picture, as we can only offer solutions, but as we don’t know the whole picture, it can be difficult to give you the right answer!
All the best anyway

pray about it!

 

[SeekerJen]

Thanks, everyone. Alan, those rules were hilarious- I may just save them to use on my own future kids’ dates! I think you were all right on the money about why the guys don’t stick around. The “big tease” theory makes a lot of sense. Tradcatmel, I’m not entirely sure she’s ever been told that it’s a sin even if it’s not actual intercourse. She belongs to a very liberal parish and has been there since she was a child. That’s why I’m not sure how to approach this from a faith/morals perspective without completely alienating her.

As for my friend…I just feel like she’s selling herself so short, cheapening herself to gain popularity or something. I’ve known her for a long time, and I know that inside there’s a really terrific, beautiful, smart and compassionate person, but that person isn’t what’s been showing through lately. As much as it saddens me to say it, if I were just meeting her now, I’m not sure we would have enough in common to be good friends. But, over the years she’s become like a sister to me and I’m not willing to bail on her. I know who she really is and it’s worth waiting for her to get through this.

One positive thing: she left me a voicemail late last night. She had a date yesterday with a nice devout Catholic guy. They went to Mass, spent the day together, and then had dinner with his family (his mom met her first and suggested the date). She apparently had a really great time and couldn’t say enough about what a nice, sweet, and great guy he was (none of the “he’s so hot!” stuff I’ve become accustomed to hearing), and how maybe my prayers for her had been answered. So there is hope.