What verses would you show someone to prove that you receive the Holy Spirit at baptism?

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catholic25

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I’m in a light-hearted debate on a couple of issues and this is one I need some help on. Thanks
 
See the quotations in the sections on the Holy Spirit and also section 3. Baptism.

See article Baptism

For example, compare John’s teaching on Baptism and then compare that to

Mark 1:9-11
“In those days Jesus … was baptized … And when he came up out of the water, immediately he saw… the Spirit descending upon him like a dove…”

And many others.

Also,

You will make your argument much stronger by showing how Satan has dominion over this world. He rules over it. Therefore, even babies have to be baptized. During the Baptism ceremony there is an exorcism rite as Satan and his claim over that child is cast out.

See
Satan is the Ruler and has Dominion over this World
Baptism is much more powerful than people realize. It is essential to salvation.

As for Babies who die without normal Baptism, we can hope in the mercy of God that He will hear our prayers to Baptize them for us when we cannot. But, the must have Baptism to be saved.
 
JohnR77 said:
For example, compare John’s teaching on Baptism and then compare that to

Mark 1:9-11
“In those days Jesus … was baptized … And when he came up out of the water, immediately he saw… the Spirit descending upon him like a dove…”
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I’m not sure I’d use that one. John didn’t confer the sacrament of Baptism, and he certainly didn’t do so on Jesus!

I think that, instead, I’d show them Acts 19 – there, the sacrament of baptism leads to the reception of the Holy Spirit and evidence of the gives that the Spirit gives!
 
Gorgias said:
I think that, instead, I’d show them Acts 19 – there, the sacrament of baptism leads to the reception of the Holy Spirit and evidence of the gives that the Spirit gives!
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Gorgias, you know so many things that I will never know. I do respect your opinion on many things. But on this I disagree.

Acts 19:2 -6
And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have never even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them ; and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.”

catholic25’s friendly adversaries are liable to try to separate verses 5 and 6 as two separate events undermining what Baptism true does.

John
 
JohnR77 said:
For example, compare John’s teaching on Baptism and then compare that to
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It can* be helpful to make that distinction on baptisms, but this passage and the comparison mentioned in my post above should still be used. Jesus freely insisted that John baptize Him. He was using this as a teaching event, not because he needed John’s baptism. Even though Jesus was always in union with the Holy Spirit, this coming down of the Holy Spirit at John’s baptism signifies what Jesus’s Baptism would confer.

CCC 1223
All the Old Covenant prefigurations find their fulfillment in Christ Jesus.

CCC 1224
Our Lord voluntarily submitted himself to the baptism of St. John, intended for sinners, in order to "fulfill all righteousness."19 Jesus’ gesture is a manifestation of his self-emptying.20 The Spirit who had hovered over the waters of the first creation descended then on the Christ as a prelude of the new creation, and the Father revealed Jesus as his “beloved Son.”

Gorgias, I know you like these ongoing, forever going, debates. I hope you will not be too disappointed to find out I really doubt that I will have any more time for this thread.

By the way, catholic25, I tried to add the following to my post above, but it would not let me.

CCC 1237
“Since Baptism signifies liberation from sin and from its instigator the devil, one or more exorcisms are pronounced over the candidate. The celebrant … explicitly renounces Satan.”

John
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JohnR77 said:
catholic25’s friendly adversaries are liable to try to separate verses 5 and 6 as two separate events undermining what Baptism true does.
Click to expand...
John,

I hear what you’re saying. I think, though, that it would provide the opportunity to explain the historical perspective – the sacrament of baptism, since the earliest days of the church, included more than just water; it included laying on of hands and anointings!

And, if that’s what the sacrament consists of, in the Bible itself, who is being more Scriptural here? 🤔
 
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