What was John the Baptist doing?

[milimac]

What was the meaning of the baptisms and preaching that John the Baptist was doing? Did these baptisms have the same meaning as our baptisms today? If not, what was the point, what was it’s goal?

Related to this I think is this Sunday’s Gospel (9/22/05 Mt.21:28-32), where Jesus said to the chief priests and elders:

“Amen, I say to you,
tax collectors and prostitutes
are entering the kingdom of God before you.
When John came to you in the way of righteousness,
you did not believe him;
but tax collectors and prostitutes did.
Yet even when you saw that,
you did not later change your minds and believe him.”

What does “in the way of righteousness” mean, and what was it that the tax collectors and prostitutes believed that the chief priests and elders failed to believe?

 

[Fidelis]

It might be instructive to look at what the Scriptures say about the mission and message of John the Baptist:

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A voice of one crying out in the desert: ‘Prepare the way of the Lord, make straight his paths.’"
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John (the) Baptist appeared in the desert proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
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People of the whole Judean countryside and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the Jordan River as they acknowledged their sins.
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John was clothed in camel’s hair, with a leather belt around his waist. He fed on locusts and wild honey.
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And this is what he proclaimed: “One mightier than I is coming after me. I am not worthy to stoop and loosen the thongs of his sandals.
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5 I have baptized you with water; he will baptize you with the holy Spirit.” (Mark 1:3-4)

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In those days John the Baptist appeared, preaching in the desert of Judea
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(and) saying, “**Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!” **
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4 It was of him that the prophet Isaiah had spoken when he said: “A voice of one crying out in the desert, ‘Prepare the way of the Lord, make straight his paths.’”
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5 John wore clothing made of camel’s hair and had a leather belt around his waist. His food was locusts and wild honey.
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At that time Jerusalem, all Judea, and the whole region around the Jordan were going out to him
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and were being baptized by him in the Jordan River as they acknowledged their sins.
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When he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?
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Produce good fruit as evidence of your repentance.
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And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you, God can raise up children to Abraham from these stones.
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Even now the ax lies at the root of the trees. Therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
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I am baptizing you with water, for repentance, but the one who is coming after me is mightier than I. I am not worthy to carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the holy Spirit and fire.
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His winnowing fan is in his hand. He will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.” (Matthew 3:1-12)

John’s baptism was not sacramental, that is, it did not convey grace or take away sin like the Christian Scrament of Baptism. It was simply an outward sign of inner repentance in anticipation of the One who would establish true purification from sin.

·The religious leaders who Jesus is addressing in this Sunday’s readings would not recognize John’s authority (Matthew 21:23-27), also could not accept his message which was to repent of their sins (Matthew 3:2), and that those who did not “bear good fruit” will be “cut down and thrown into the fire” (Matthew 3:10).

On the other hand, those unencumbered by pride and able to acknowledge their sinfulness (in this case the tax collectors and prostitutes) were able to receive Jesus’ message with joy and simplicity (vv 31-32).

 

[milimac]

Thanks that was a great reply.

I have a further question:
In the parable in this gospel reading there are two sons who are asked to work in the vineyard, one says “no” but changes his mind and goes, while the other says “yes”, but does not go.

Is the analogy that Jesus is trying to make that the chief priests have said “yes” to God externally or in their own minds, but there is no internal repentence so they haven’t “gone into the vineyard” to “work” or struggle with their commitment to repent; and the prostitutes and tax collectors who originally said “no” to God through their sinful lives actually made a commitment to repent and have thus gone into the vineyard to work – pruning, conditioning the soil, crushing grapes, etc?

Or is there another or better interpretation? What does the vineyard and working in the vineyard represent?

 

[Mystophilus]

milimac:

What was the meaning of the baptisms and preaching that John the Baptist was doing? Did these baptisms have the same meaning as our baptisms today? If not, what was the point, what was its goal?

In addition to the verses already presented by the noble Fidelis, it might be useful to look at Acts 18:25-6, in which Priscilla and Aquila explained the way of God “more accurately” to Apollos, who “knew only the baptism of John”. Also, in the beginning of the next chapter, Paul arrives in Ephesus, and asks the believers there
“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. (Acts 19:2-6)
Clearly, a differentiation is made between John’s baptism and the “proper” one. As Fidelis said, John’s baptism was only an act of repentance; it was not a confession of faith.

What does “in the way of righteousness” mean

This is he about whom it has been written, ‘Behold, I am sending my messenger ahead of you,
who will prepare your way for you.’ (Mt 11:10, ref. Mal 3:1)
John was the guide, Jesus the destination.

, and what was it that the tax collectors and prostitutes believed that the chief priests and elders failed to believe?

It was the truth: that no one is worthy to stand before God, and that all need to repent.

 

[Mystophilus]

milimac:

Or is there another or better interpretation?

Another? Yes. Probably thousands.
Better? I doubt it.

What does the vineyard and working in the vineyard represent?

The vineyard is an extremely common feature in the Bible, appearing more than 100 times. My personal favourite is its appearance in the Song of Songs, as a figure for the Beloved.

Generally, it refers to something which is desirable for its fruit but which requires proper care and attention. In this particular case, Jesus is evidently censuring the religious authorities for claiming that they would do their duty to the owner of the vineyard (presumably God), yet failing to do it. See also the next passage: vv. 33-46.

 

[Steven_Merten]

Hello milimac,

I think that the point Jesus is making is that, regardless of John’s baptism, the Church’s baptism or Old Testament peoples lack of baptism, if you wish to go to heaven, do what God tells you to do. Those who believe and put faith in God’s prophets (the human voices of the Holy Spirit) and our Lord Jesus Christ, by doing what God tells them to do, go to heaven.

We know that unbaptized Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are in heaven. We do not know if the prostitutes and tax collectors were baptized before they went to heaven and Jesus does not go out of His way to clarify whether or not they were. What Jesus does assure us of is that those who do the will of God, and not those who simply claim to do the will of God, are going to heaven.

Right or wrong, Vatican II deemphasizes the need for conversion and baptism for eternal life and focuses more on doing what is God wills you to do. Possibly Vatican II and Pope John Paul II took the concept a little too far. It is debateable.

**NAB LUK 13:28**And there will be wailing and grinding of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God and you yourselves cast out.

The following is a quote of Pope John Paul II’s statement in English to those gathered in St. Peter’s square on Wednesday, December 6th, 2000, in which he briefly summarized his message of the day, “FOR US, THE KINGDOM IS GRACE”:

“Dear brothers and sisters, the theme of Our general audience during this great Jubilee year, has been the glory of the Trinity, and today we ask what we must do to ensure that the glory of the Trinity shines forth more fully in the world. In essence we are called to be converted and to believe in the Gospel. We are to accept the kingdom of God in our hearts, and to bear witness to it by word and deed. The kingdom indicates the loving presence and activity of God in the world and should be a source of serenity and confidence to our lives. The Gospel teaches us that those who live in accordance with the beatitudes: the poor in spirit; the pure in heart; those who will lovingly [endure] the sufferings of life; will enter God’s kingdom. All who seek God with a sincere heart, including those who do not know Christ and His Church**, contribute under the influence of grace, to the building of this kingdom**. In the Lord’s prayer we say ‘Thy kingdom come’. May this be the hope that sustains us and inspires our Christian life and world.”

We confess with the Apostle Paul “that there is salvation in no other name” (Acts 4:12). The “Dominus Iesus” declaration, in the wake of Vatican II, shows that with this the salvation** of non-Christians is not denied,** but explains its ultimate source in Christ, in whom God and man are united. God gives light to all in a way appropriate to their interior and environmental situation, granting them saving grace through ways known to him (see “Dominus Iesus,” VI, 20-21). The document clarifies the essential Christian elements, which do not obstruct the dialogue, but show its basis, because a dialogue without foundations would be destined to degenerate into empty verbosity.

Normally, “it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their own conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God’s invitation and receive salvation** in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their Saviour** (cf. Ad gentes, nn. 3, 9, 11)” (Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue – Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples,

 

[Steven_Merten]

I think that it is interesting that the Church bases her analasis that the killers of Jesus were Jews and not Christians on the Church thought that John’s baptism does not make one a Christian.

Jesus certianly points at the Pharisees, who perverted John’s baptism as sepperating themselves out as God’s heaven bound, as His killers. The Pharisees killed Jesus due to His harsh reprimands toward the Pharisee’s evil in using John’s baptism to glorify and seperate themselves from others in the world as God’s chosen few in possession of eternal life.

NAB MAT 21:43
Therefore, I say to you,** the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people that will produce its fruit.** ( The one who falls on this stone will be dashed to pieces; and it will crush anyone on whom it falls.)" When the chief priests and** the Pharisees heard his parables, they knew that he was speaking about them. And although they were attempting to arrest him,** they feared the crowds, for they regarded him as a prophet.

**NAB MAT 3:8 **

They were being baptized by him in the Jordan River as they confessed their sins. When he saw that many of the Pharisees and Sadducees were stepping forward for this bath, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who told you to flee from the wrath to come? Give some evidence that you mean to reform. Do not pride yourselves on the claim, ‘Abraham is our father.’ I tell you, God can raise up children to Abraham from these very stones.”**NAB LUK 16:16 The Law. **

"The law and the prophets were in force** until John. From his time on, the good news of God’s kingdom has been proclaimed, and people of every sort are forcing their way in.** It is easier for the heavens and the earth to pass away than for a single stroke of a letter of the law to pass. NAB MAT 11:11

"I solemnly assure you, history has not known a man born of woman greater than John the Baptizer. Yet the least born into the Kingdom of God is greater than he. From John the Baptizer’s time until now the kingdom of God has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force." NAB MAT 21:37

"Finally he sent his son to them, thinking, “They will respect my son.’ When they saw the son, the tenants said to one another, 'Here is the one who will inherit everything. Let us kill him and then we shall have his inheritance!” With that they seized him, dragged him outside the vineyard, and killed him."

NAB MAT 12:14

When the Pharisees were outside they began to plot against him to find a way to destroy him.

 

[Fidelis]

milimac:

Thanks that was a great reply.

I have a further question:
In the parable in this gospel reading there are two sons who are asked to work in the vineyard, one says “no” but changes his mind and goes, while the other says “yes”, but does not go.

Is the analogy that Jesus is trying to make that the chief priests have said “yes” to God externally or in their own minds, but there is no internal repentence so they haven’t “gone into the vineyard” to “work” or struggle with their commitment to repent; and the prostitutes and tax collectors who originally said “no” to God through their sinful lives actually made a commitment to repent and have thus gone into the vineyard to work – pruning, conditioning the soil, crushing grapes, etc?

Or is there another or better interpretation?

That is an excellent interpretation. The next step is to apply that truth to our own lives.

What does the vineyard and working in the vineyard represent?

In addition to Mystophilus’ insight, this Sunday’s reading contains the second of three parables in Matthew that concern a vineyard (we heard the first last week, and will hear the third next Sunday). The vineyard was a common Old Testament image for the people of God (Isaiah 5:1-7; Jeremiah 5:10; Ezekiel 19:10-14), usually in the context of their unfaithfulness to him. Working in the vineyard, then, can be understood as our obedience to good in working in his kingdom.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Note Luke 7:29-30

All the people who listened, including the tax collectors, and who were baptized with the baptism of John, acknowledged the righteousness of God;30 but the Pharisees and scholars of the law, who were not baptized by him, rejected the plan of God for themselves.

I tend to think that this is why the Pharisees et al were unable to receive Jesus’ message while the others did.

 

[Fidelis]

Note Luke 7:29-30
All the people who listened, including the tax collectors, and who were baptized with the baptism of John, acknowledged the righteousness of God;30 but the Pharisees and scholars of the law, who were not baptized by him, rejected the plan of God for themselves.

“Acknowledged the righteousness of God” is an interesting phrase. In context of the passage, what does it mean? What are the practical implications for us?

 

[Steven_Merten]

Joe Kelley:

Note Luke 7:29-30

I tend to think that this is why the Pharisees et al were unable to receive Jesus’ message while the others did.

Hello Joe,

Can you see how the Pharisees knew that Jesus was talking about them in the Wedding Banquet parable. Do we agree that a person cannot literally force their way into God’s Kingdom. Can we understand from Jesus teaching that it was the Pharisees, not all of them, but enough who abused baptism to verbally force their way into the Kingdom of God. Jesus verbally kicks the Pharisees out of the Kingdom of God in His parables. The Pharisees realize He is talking about them. They then look for an opportunity to kill Him.

It is obvious that the Pharisees did not accept Jesus and John the Baptists message to repent and obey God. Still it is obvious that they got baptized to exalt themselves over others as in possession of the Kingdom of God that John preached about.

NAB LUK 16:16 The Law. "The law and the prophets were in force until John. From his time on, the good news of God’s kingdom has been proclaimed, and people of every sort are forcing their way in. It is easier for the heavens and the earth to pass away than for a single stroke of a letter of the law to pass.

NAB MAT 22 The Wedding Banquet

Jesus again in reply spoke to them in parables, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son. He dispatched his servants to summon the invited guests to the feast, but they refused to come. A second time he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those invited: “Behold, I have prepared my banquet, my calves and fattened cattle are killed, and everything is ready; come to the feast.”’ Some ignored the invitation and went away, one to his farm, another to his business. The rest laid hold of his servants, mistreated them, and killed them. The king was enraged and sent his troops, destroyed those murderers, and burned their city. Then he said to his servants, ‘The feast is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy to come. Go out, therefore, into the main roads and invite to the feast whomever you find.’ The servants went out into the streets and gathered all they found, bad and good alike, and the hall was filled with guests. But when the king came in to meet the guests he saw a man there not dressed in a wedding garment. He said to him, ‘My friend, how is it that you came in here without a wedding garment?’ But he was reduced to silence. Then the king said to his attendants, ‘Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.’ Many are invited, but few are chosen." Then the Pharisees went off and plotted how they might entrap him in speech.

NAB REV 19:6

For the wedding day of the Lamb has come, his bride has made herself ready. She was allowed to wear a bright, clean linen garment." (The linen represents the righteous deeds of the holy ones.)​

**NAB MAT 21:43 **

Therefore, I say to you,** the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people that will produce its fruit.** ( The one who falls on this stone will be dashed to pieces; and it will crush anyone on whom it falls.)" When the chief priests and** the Pharisees heard his parables, they knew that he was speaking about them. And although they were attempting to arrest him,** they feared the crowds, for they regarded him as a prophet.

 

[BayCityRickL]

One source comments that John was conducting a washing similar to but oh-so different from the ritual baths that were taken by pilgrims to the Temple.

John baptized i.e. washed them in the ‘living’ waters of the river, which tangibly referred to the flowing waters, as opposed to the stagnant waters in the ritual baths == which was changed after every seven baths.

Of course John was preaching an inner conversion rather than merely a ceremonial pro forma washing.

Why did Jesus say that he had to be baptized? to change the emphasis here: Water was a sign of condemnation (refer to the flood of Noah’s time) and the method of washing was full immersion, like those who died in the flood. So, Jesus took on himself the sign of condemnation signified by the water.

Of course, John proclaimed that he was unworthy to put this sign on Jesus. But, Jesus insisted that it had to be so.

Jesus was already the sign of the fulfillment of the promises of the Old Testament. And, there is so much more here.

 

[milimac]

BayCityRickL:

One source comments that John was conducting a washing similar to but oh-so different from the ritual baths that were taken by pilgrims to the Temple.

John baptized i.e. washed them in the ‘living’ waters of the river, which tangibly referred to the flowing waters, as opposed to the stagnant waters in the ritual baths == which was changed after every seven baths.

Of course John was preaching an inner conversion rather than merely a ceremonial pro forma washing.

Why did Jesus say that he had to be baptized? to change the emphasis here: Water was a sign of condemnation (refer to the flood of Noah’s time) and the method of washing was full immersion, like those who died in the flood. So, Jesus took on himself the sign of condemnation signified by the water.

Of course, John proclaimed that he was unworthy to put this sign on Jesus. But, Jesus insisted that it had to be so.

Jesus was already the sign of the fulfillment of the promises of the Old Testament. And, there is so much more here.

Interesting comments Rick. In a sense Jesus has transformed the water, which I believe was also feared and regarded mysterious by the Jews and symbolized death, into the opposite – salvation and life. Seems very analagous to the cross, which has also been transformed from a sign of death and torture to a sign of hope, salvation, life, and glory. And the rising from the water through baptism seems very analagous to the Resurrection.

 

[BayCityRickL]

Jesus’ baptism also parallels the annual day of atonement, in which the high priest would impute the sins of the people to a ’ scape goat ’ which was then released into the wilderness to be devoured by the wild animals.

So, John the Baptizer says “behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.” And, then, Jesus promptly is led out into the desert by the Spirit == surely a parallel and a fulfillment of the sign of the Old Testament. But, the baptism is called the beginning of Jesus’ ministry, in that he shows his willingness to die, as reflected in the danger of the wilderness. The desert was a dark place at night. Although the scripture is silent, we may wonder if Satan came to tempt Jesus at night.

The more I studied Jesus baptism in the Jordan, the more profoundly I have been impressed by it and by what our own baptism means.