what was Malachi predicting?

[benidict]

Hello everyone. i started this thread, because another poster and i had a friendly disagreement about a prophecy found in the prophecy of Malachi. i offered to start this thread, and he graciously encouraged it. ive had a very long day, so ill try to phrase it right. lol!
Malachi 1:11 reads- For from the rising of the sun even to the going down,
my Name is great among the gentiles, and in every
place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my
Name a clean oblation: for my Name is great among the
gentiles, saith the Lord of Host.
I would say this was predicting the Church Christ was going to set up. that there would be several distinguishing marks to identify this Church. for one, it would be universal. which is why it says, from the rising of the sun to the going down. also, this Church would have a sacrifice it offers, on a continual basis. which is why it is written. and in every place there is sacrifice. this Church also would have a pure Oblation. namely this was predicting the the real presence of the body and blood of Christ. i believe this passage points to none other than the founding of the Catholic Church, by Christ. i will let my good friend give his take, and let the discussion begin. if i missed anything. im sorry. its been a tireing day. but hey. at least i had a good omellette to start things off! lol! peace

 

[Nicea325]

Hello everyone. i started this thread, because another poster and i had a friendly disagreement about a prophecy found in the prophecy of Malachi. i offered to start this thread, and he graciously encouraged it. ive had a very long day, so ill try to phrase it right. lol!
Malachi 1:11 reads- For from the rising of the sun even to the going down,
my Name is great among the gentiles, and in every
place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my
Name a clean oblation: for my Name is great among the
gentiles, saith the Lord of Host.
I would say this was predicting the Church Christ was going to set up. that there would be several distinguishing marks to identify this Church. for one, it would be universal. which is why it says, from the rising of the sun to the going down. also, this Church would have a sacrifice it offers, on a continual basis. which is why it is written. and in every place there is sacrifice. this Church also would have a pure Oblation. namely this was predicting the the real presence of the body and blood of Christ. i believe this passage points to none other than the founding of the Catholic Church, by Christ. i will let my good friend give his take, and let the discussion begin. if i missed anything. im sorry. its been a tireing day. but hey. at least i had a good omellette to start things off! lol! peace

The imperfect sacrifices offered without sincerity by the people of Judah are displeasing to the Lord. He will rather be pleased with the offerings of the Gentile nations throughout the world (from the rising of the sun, even to its setting), which anticipate the pure offering to be sacrificed in messianic times, the universal Sacrifice of the Mass, as we are told by the Council of Trent.

 

[Araninski]

Originally Posted by benidict

Hello everyone. i started this thread, because another poster and i had a friendly disagreement about a prophecy found in the prophecy of Malachi. i offered to start this thread, and he graciously encouraged it. ive had a very long day, so ill try to phrase it right. lol!
Malachi 1:11 reads- For from the rising of the sun even to the going down,
my Name is great among the gentiles, and in every
place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my
Name a clean oblation: for my Name is great among the
gentiles, saith the Lord of Host.
I would say this was predicting the Church Christ was going to set up. that there would be several distinguishing marks to identify this Church. for one, it would be universal. which is why it says, from the rising of the sun to the going down. also, this Church would have a sacrifice it offers, on a continual basis. which is why it is written. and in every place there is sacrifice. this Church also would have a pure Oblation. namely this was predicting the the real presence of the body and blood of Christ. i believe this passage points to none other than the founding of the Catholic Church, by Christ. i will let my good friend give his take, and let the discussion begin. if i missed anything. im sorry. its been a tireing day. but hey. at least i had a good omellette to start things off! lol! peace

If you are Catholic, Nicea’s explanation seems pretty good, however if you would like to hear mine, here it is.

For from the rising of the sun even to the going down,
my Name is great among the gentiles, and in every
place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my
Name a clean oblation: for my Name is great among the
gentiles, saith the Lord of Host.

God wanted sacrifice that came from within us, from our heart, not like the Jews in those times, just sacrificed animals, without sincerity.

Malachi was prophesying the sacrifice of worship that everyone would be offering to God all day long, everywhere not only in every congregation but in hospitals, households, in offices, at work, in times of troubles, during catastrophes , times of crisis, etc

Everyone would just call the name over all names because it is great among everyone, it is holy, and deserves all praise. Also Paul said many things which are sacrifice to God, and he said it with this word “continually” , happening always.

Hebrews 13:15-16
“Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise–the fruit of lips that confess his name. And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.”

Romans 12:1-2
“Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God–this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is–his good, pleasing and perfect will.”

Grace of our God bless you in your endeavors.

 

[pablope]

Hello everyone. i started this thread, because another poster and i had a friendly disagreement about a prophecy found in the prophecy of Malachi. i offered to start this thread, and he graciously encouraged it. ive had a very long day, so ill try to phrase it right. lol!
Malachi 1:11 reads- For from the rising of the sun even to the going down,
my Name is great among the gentiles, and in every
place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my
Name a clean oblation: for my Name is great among the
gentiles, saith the Lord of Host.
I would say this was predicting the Church Christ was going to set up. that there would be several distinguishing marks to identify this Church. for one, it would be universal. which is why it says, from the rising of the sun to the going down. also, this Church would have a sacrifice it offers, on a continual basis. which is why it is written. and in every place there is sacrifice. this Church also would have a pure Oblation. namely this was predicting the the real presence of the body and blood of Christ. i believe this passage points to none other than the founding of the Catholic Church, by Christ. i will let my good friend give his take, and let the discussion begin. if i missed anything. im sorry. its been a tireing day. but hey. at least i had a good omellette to start things off! lol! peace

Hi, Benedict…hope all is well with you my friend…

I went on looked at various commentaries…about this verse…I will settle on the Haydock as it references other commentators…

Here it is (excerpts…):

11 For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts.

Clean oblation. The precious body and blood of Christ in the eucharistic sacrifice…This is denoted by the very word mincha, the offering of flour and wine…We pollute this bread, that is the body of Christ, when we approach the altar unworthily."

It is offered daily throughout the world. The Jews see the completion of this prediction, and are vexed; they strive to elude its force. Though enemies, they bear about these proofs of our faith, and of their own condemnation. C. — God not only changed his people, but instituted a better sacrifice. Instead of the former needy elements, (Gal. iv.) which were often defiled by the sins of the offerers, He instituted the sacrifice of his own Body and Blood, under the appearance of bread and wine, as S. Chrys. (in Ps. xcv.) Theod. &c. prove against all opponents. A sacrifice different from any offered as many have demonstrated.

veritasbible.com/drb/compare/haydock/Malachias_1

After reviewing Nicea’s…it agrees with Nicea’s post.

 

[ParkerD]

If you are Catholic, Nicea’s explanation seems pretty good, however if you would like to hear mine, here it is.

For from the rising of the sun even to the going down,
my Name is great among the gentiles, and in every
place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my
Name a clean oblation: for my Name is great among the
gentiles, saith the Lord of Host.

God wanted sacrifice that came from within us, from our heart, not like the Jews in those times, just sacrificed animals, without sincerity.

Malachi was prophesying the sacrifice of worship that everyone would be offering to God all day long, everywhere not only in every congregation but in hospitals, households, in offices, at work, in times of troubles, during catastrophes , times of crisis, etc

Everyone would just call the name over all names because it is great among everyone, it is holy, and deserves all praise. Also Paul said many things which are sacrifice to God, and he said it with this word “continually” , happening always.

Hebrews 13:15-16
“Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise–the fruit of lips that confess his name. And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.”

Romans 12:1-2
“Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God–this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is–his good, pleasing and perfect will.”

Grace of our God bless you in your endeavors.

Araninski,

Thanks for providing this perspective. You have given great insights, and I think they are in line with Psalms 141:2 as well as with Romans 12:1-2 and Hebrews 13:15-16.

 

[benidict]

If you are Catholic, Nicea’s explanation seems pretty good, however if you would like to hear mine, here it is.

For from the rising of the sun even to the going down,
my Name is great among the gentiles, and in every
place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my
Name a clean oblation: for my Name is great among the
gentiles, saith the Lord of Host.

God wanted sacrifice that came from within us, from our heart, not like the Jews in those times, just sacrificed animals, without sincerity.

Malachi was prophesying the sacrifice of worship that everyone would be offering to God all day long, everywhere not only in every congregation but in hospitals, households, in offices, at work, in times of troubles, during catastrophes , times of crisis, etc

Everyone would just call the name over all names because it is great among everyone, it is holy, and deserves all praise. Also Paul said many things which are sacrifice to God, and he said it with this word “continually” , happening always.

Hebrews 13:15-16
“Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise–the fruit of lips that confess his name. And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.”

Romans 12:1-2
“Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God–this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is–his good, pleasing and perfect will.”

Grace of our God bless you in your endeavors.

hello, my friend. glad you could give your view. would you say then, that we are to take this verse allegorically, and that this prophechy was not pointing to an actual event? Peace

 

[Araninski]

Originally Posted by benidict

hello, my friend. glad you could give your view. would you say then, that we are to take this verse allegorically, and that this prophechy was not pointing to an actual event? Peace

Sup!

If you want to define spiritual matters as allegorical then, yes. Since the death of Jesus we have learned throughout the times that everything the Jews did were a shadow of the things to come, for example instead of circumsizing physically, God wants circumcision of our heart, more or less baptism and the new change of our lives once we baptize. Well if you don’t think that people praising God all day , every day, at all times, is an event, well. But I do think this prophetic word is also pointing out at the times the Messiah will set the new kingdom, there will be even more praise and worship for our Mighty God, the Beautiful Lamb which shed His blood for us, and His Holy Spirit which has helped us all in all adversities.

Jesus gave us this Holy Spirit that it is just so great ! Praise God!

Peace of Jesus , the Messiah.

 

[Esdra]

…]

Malachi 1:11

God wanted sacrifice that came from within us, from our heart, not like the Jews in those times, just sacrificed animals, without sincerity.

Malachi was prophesying the sacrifice of worship that everyone would be offering to God all day long, everywhere not only in every congregation but in hospitals, households, in offices, at work, in times of troubles, during catastrophes , times of crisis, etc

Everyone would just call the name over all names because it is great among everyone, it is holy, and deserves all praise. Also Paul said many things which are sacrifice to God, and he said it with this word “continually” , happening always.


Heb. 13:15-16

Rom. 12:1-2

…]

Hi

thanks for sharing.

I think this is an alternative way of looking at it (than benedict did); and actually I think so too.

But I’d like to add that the perfect offering mentioned in verse 11 is the sacrifice for us of our Lord Jesus that we may have a relationship again with our creator and God YHW (like we had in the garden Eden, before sin came into our world)!
Jesus or better said His cross is the bridge between us humans and God!
Through Jesus’ pure sacrifice we can again have a relationship to Him.

Verses 6-14 of Malachi 11 deal with the right worship - how god wants to be worshipped, and this is in truth and the spirit.

Here again the verse in context (from the NASB):

Sin of the Priests

6" ‘A son honors his father, and a servant his master Then if I am a father, where is My honor? And if I am a master, where is My respect?’ says the LORD of hosts to you, O priests who despise My name. But you say, ‘How have we despised Your name?’

7"You are presenting defiled food upon My altar But you say, ‘How have we defiled You?’ In that you say, ‘The table of the LORD is to be despised.’

8"But when you present the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? And when you present the lame and sick, is it not evil? Why not offer it to your governor? Would he be pleased with you? Or would he receive you kindly?" says the LORD of hosts.

9"But now will you not entreat God’s favor, that He may be gracious to us? With such an offering on your part, will He receive any of you kindly?" says the LORD of hosts.

10"Oh that there were one among you who would shut the gates, that you might not uselessly kindle fire on My altar! I am not pleased with you," says the LORD of hosts, "nor will I accept an offering from you.

** 11"For from the rising of the sun even to its setting, My name will be great among the nations, and in every place incense is going to be offered to My name, and a grain offering that is pure; for My name will be great among the nations," says the LORD of hosts.**

12"But you are profaning it, in that you say, ‘The table of the Lord is defiled, and as for its fruit, its food is to be despised.’

13"You also say, ‘My, how tiresome it is!’ And you disdainfully sniff at it," says the LORD of hosts, “and you bring what was taken by robbery and what is lame or sick; so you bring the offering! Should I receive that from your hand?” says the LORD.

14"But cursed be the swindler who has a male in his flock and vows it, but sacrifices a blemished animal to the Lord, for I am a great King," says the LORD of hosts, “and My name is feared among the nations.”

Esdra

 

[Esdra]

And here two bible commentaries on our Verse (including context):

Commentary on Malachi 1:6-14

We may each charge upon ourselves what is here charged upon the priests. Our relation to God, as our Father and Master, strongly obliges us to fear and honour him. But they were so scornful that they derided reproof. Sinners ruin themselves by trying to baffle their convictions. Those who live in careless neglect of holy ordinances, who attend on them without reverence, and go from them under no concern, in effect say, The table of the Lord is contemptible. They despised God’s name in what they did. It is evident that these understood not the meaning of the sacrifices, as shadowing forth the unblemished Lamb of God; they grudged the expense, thinking all thrown away which did not turn to their profit. If we worship God ignorantly, and without understanding, we bring the blind for sacrifice; if we do it carelessly, if we are cold, dull, and dead in it, we bring the sick; if we rest in the bodily exercise, and do not make heart-work of it, we bring the lame; and if we suffer vain thoughts and distractions to lodge within us, we bring the torn. And is not this evil? Is it not a great affront to God, and a great wrong and injury to our own souls? In order to the acceptance of our actions with God, it is not enough to do that which, for the matter of it, is good; but we must do it from a right principle, in a right manner, and for a right end. Our constant mercies from God, make worse our slothfulness and niggardliness, in our returns of duty to God. A spiritual worship shall be established. Incense shall be offered to God’s name, which signifies prayer and praise. And it shall be a pure offering. When the hour came, in which the true worshippers worshipped the Father in Spirit and in truth, then this incense was offered, even this pure offering. We may rely on God’s mercy for pardon as to the past, but not for indulgence to sin in future. If there be a willing mind, it will be accepted, though defective; but if any be a deceiver, devoting his best to Satan and to his lusts, he is under a curse. Men now, though in a different way, profane the name of the Lord, pollute his table, and show contempt for his worship.

(Matthew Henry’s Commentary)

Verse 11

[11] For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place **incense **shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

Incense — A law term for a gospel duty, and under this type are contained the prayers and praises, nay, the whole gospel-worship.

A pure offering — Both sincere, in opposition to hypocrisy, and holy, in opposition to impurity, superstition and idolatry.

(Wesley’s Explanatory Notes)

In Christ,
Esdra

 

[benidict]

And here two bible commentaries on our Verse (including context):

In Christ,
Esdra

the quote on incense being used and a pure offering are very interesting indeed my friend. i know the Orthodox, use incense in their worship. as do we as Catholics. i think this also is a defining charachteristic. the Catholic Church is found in every nation on earth. daily, we have incense offered and we have Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ truly present with us in the Eucharist. just as Malachi said would happen. i think you can see by now, i do not believe this verse is at all allegorical. it was giving a bluprint for true worship, as your protestant commentary attested to. i have much respect for matthew henry. i also own a copy of his commentary, unfortuneatly i had to leave it behind. we do have the spiritual worship spoken of. we as Catholics are global. we do offer incense to his name. we do have the perfect sacrifice spoken of. how many protestant Churches do these things? are any of them global? do they have a sacrifice they offer? this can get much deeper if you would like. there is alot more that happens in the mass than meets the eye. i would be happy to share it with you if you would like. either here, or p.m. whichever you are most comfortable with. peace

 

[Esdra]

the quote on incense being used and a pure offering are very interesting indeed my friend. i know the Orthodox, use incense in their worship. as do we as Catholics. i think this also is a defining charachteristic. the Catholic Church is found in every nation on earth. daily, we have incense offered and we have Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ truly present with us in the Eucharist. just as Malachi said would happen. i think you can see by now, i do not believe this verse is at all allegorical. it was giving a bluprint for true worship, as your protestant commentary attested to. i have much respect for matthew henry. i also own a copy of his commentary, unfortuneatly i had to leave it behind. we do have the spiritual worship spoken of. we as Catholics are global. we do offer incense to his name. we do have the perfect sacrifice spoken of. how many protestant Churches do these things? are any of them global? do they have a sacrifice they offer? this can get much deeper if you would like. there is alot more that happens in the mass than meets the eye. i would be happy to share it with you if you would like. either here, or p.m. whichever you are most comfortable with. peace

Hi

well, since most protestant Churches are much less organised than the CC, it’s rather hard to compare the CC with them.

But there ARE protestant Churches which are global:
the Baptists are global.
The Mennonites are global, more or less.
The Lutherans are global.
Of course the SDAs are global (well, at least they are protestants!° )

Most protestant Churches are organised in diverse alliances, which are part of world wide alliances.

And I would say that Churches who are in an alliance have more or less the same worship style…

Esdra

 

[KathleenGee]

IF the Lord God of Israel wanted the daily sacrifice, the rituals removed because they were not bearing witness to faith in the heart, He would have removed them.

The rituals and sacrifice continued up to the Passover and to the Last Supper of Jesus Christ. However, the Lord interloped Holy Thursday by instituting the Perpetual Sacrifice foreseen by the ancient, and distant priest, Melchizedek. Jesus instituted the remembrance of His forthcoming sacrifice on the Cross for the atonement of sin, and told the Apostles from then on to set and prepare His believers to come to the Banquet Table…beginning here on earth…through the Eucharist. His mission ended with the institution of penance before His glorious ascension into heaven, when He appeared Resurrection Sunday evening to the Apostles.

Instead the practice of Breaking Bread was now sanctified through Christ’s death and resurrection, finalized by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. The last parts of Revelation give us a reflection of the Mass here on earth.

When the Eucharistic Liturgy begins, the ancient prayer of the Jewish Temple, the Sanctus is recited and calls upon the presence of Angels to carry the mystical sacrifice united with us to the Father through Christ. This Perpetual Sacrifice is happening every hour of every day, attended by the angels and saints in heaven with us here on earth, the only perfect sacrifice.

 

[benidict]

IF the Lord God of Israel wanted the daily sacrifice, the rituals removed because they were not bearing witness to faith in the heart, He would have removed them.

The rituals and sacrifice continued up to the Passover and to the Last Supper of Jesus Christ. However, the Lord interloped Holy Thursday by instituting the Perpetual Sacrifice foreseen by the ancient, and distant priest, Melchizedek. Jesus instituted the remembrance of His forthcoming sacrifice on the Cross for the atonement of sin, and told the Apostles from then on to set and prepare His believers to come to the Banquet Table…beginning here on earth…through the Eucharist. His mission ended with the institution of penance before His glorious ascension into heaven, when He appeared Resurrection Sunday evening to the Apostles.

Instead the practice of Breaking Bread was now sanctified through Christ’s death and resurrection, finalized by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. The last parts of Revelation give us a reflection of the Mass here on earth.

When the Eucharistic Liturgy begins, the ancient prayer of the Jewish Temple, the Sanctus is recited and calls upon the presence of Angels to carry the mystical sacrifice united with us to the Father through Christ. This Perpetual Sacrifice is happening every hour of every day, attended by the angels and saints in heaven with us here on earth, the only perfect sacrifice.

i knew there was someone who could explain this way better than me. than you very much Kathleen! may you have a blessed Christmas, you and yours.

 

[Timothy17]

If you are Catholic, Nicea’s explanation seems pretty good, however if you would like to hear mine, here it is.

For from the rising of the sun even to the going down,
my Name is great among the gentiles, and in every
place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my
Name a clean oblation: for my Name is great among the
gentiles, saith the Lord of Host.

God wanted sacrifice that came from within us, from our heart, not like the Jews in those times, just sacrificed animals, without sincerity.

Malachi was prophesying the sacrifice of worship that everyone would be offering to God all day long, everywhere not only in every congregation but in hospitals, households, in offices, at work, in times of troubles, during catastrophes , times of crisis, etc

Everyone would just call the name over all names because it is great among everyone, it is holy, and deserves all praise. Also Paul said many things which are sacrifice to God, and he said it with this word “continually” , happening always.

Hebrews 13:15-16
“Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise–the fruit of lips that confess his name. And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.”

Romans 12:1-2
“Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God–this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is–his good, pleasing and perfect will.”

Grace of our God bless you in your endeavors.

I believe, at this point and as was alluded to by others, it is important to introduce King Melchizedek of Salem, priest of the Most High God, which name means “King of Righteousness and Peace,” according to St Paul. Now this King was honoured by Abraham, and Abraham paid him tribute, giving him 1/10th of all the spoils he (Abraham) had from defeating a leaugue of kings. All we know about this Priest-King is that he was a righteous priest and a king of peace : we know neither his mother nor his father, his wife nor his children. Now this king, though he was already righteous, yet still made an offering to God of bread and wine. The question becomes, then, if he were already righteous (a doer of God’s will), why then would he yet make sacrifices of bread and wine to the Most High God ? For in your argument you say the truth, that God desires from us righteousness, pure hearts, etc. However, if this was all God desired in the prophecy of Malachi, why then did His Righteous Priest-King of Salem still make offerings and sacrifices, and why does Malachi make specific mention of a clean oblation being offered throughout the world ? For King Melchizedek was a doer of good works already, and yet he still made offerings and sacrifices.

Pax,
Tim

 

[GaryTaylor]

Hello everyone. i started this thread, because another poster and i had a friendly disagreement about a prophecy found in the prophecy of Malachi. i offered to start this thread, and he graciously encouraged it. ive had a very long day, so ill try to phrase it right. lol!
Malachi 1:11 reads- For from the rising of the sun even to the going down,
my Name is great among the gentiles, and in every
place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my
Name a clean oblation: for my Name is great among the
gentiles, saith the Lord of Host.
I would say this was predicting the Church Christ was going to set up. that there would be several distinguishing marks to identify this Church. for one, it would be universal. which is why it says, from the rising of the sun to the going down. also, this Church would have a sacrifice it offers, on a continual basis. which is why it is written. and in every place there is sacrifice. this Church also would have a pure Oblation. namely this was predicting the the real presence of the body and blood of Christ. i believe this passage points to none other than the founding of the Catholic Church, by Christ. i will let my good friend give his take, and let the discussion begin. if i missed anything. im sorry. its been a tireing day. but hey. at least i had a good omellette to start things off! lol! peace

I agree, did you catch the LA/NY Times article today about the Christian Priests killed in Iraq? I’m sure your aware. Great thought provoking write up.