What was the first Protestant denominaton to NOT believe in the immaculate conception?

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Opal0427

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I’ve read that the belief in Mary’s immaculate conception is historically documented in the early centruries of Christianity (at least back to the 4th centrury.) & I’ve heard that even Martin Luther & John Calvin believed in Mary’s immaculate conception?

So, when (& by who) did the belief Mary wasn’t concieved without sin become popular within modern Protestantism?
 
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The Immaculate Conception refers to the conception of Mary in her mother’s womb. not her birth.
 
Well, the Immaculate Conception was not defined as Dogma until the 1800’s while the reformation began in the 1600’s.
Therefore they never have had it as part of their Theology.
However as you correctly pointed out both Luther and Calvin did believe that the Virgin Mary was sinless and by extension conceived without the stain of original sin but they had this belief through the Sacred Tradition handed down from the beginning.
Possibly the ejection of the belief came when later protestants ejected much of the Sacred Tradition an lost so much of the ancient Christian mindset.
 
JerryZ said:
Well, the Immaculate Conception was not defined as Dogma until the 1800’s while the reformation began in the 1600’s.
Therefore they never have had it as part of their Theology.
However as you correctly pointed out both Luther and Calvin did believe that the Virgin Mary was sinless and by extension conceived without the stain of original sin but they had this belief through the Sacred Tradition handed down from the beginning.
Possibly the ejection of the belief came when later protestants ejected much of the Sacred Tradition an lost so much of the ancient Christian mindset.
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Perhaps it wasn’t defined formally in their lifetime, but was taken for granted. I believe Luther held onto Catholic beliefs more than Calvin.
 
I think it was St Iraneus who in the 2nd century first drew the parallel between Eve and Mary where implicitly the New Eve is sinless. Certainly St Augustine in the 4th century explicitly called Mary free from original sin, which implies the Immaculate Conception. I think St Anselm in the 11th century introduced the feast of the conception of Mary to Normandy.
 
I do not know when this ceased, however, I have to think it got jettisoned somewhere along the line, as there developed in evangelical Christianity a sort of “aversion” to Marian devotion — many if not most evangelicals today are horrified by the idea of being devoted to, or invoking, anyone other than Jesus. To them it is idolatry. The vibe I get is that they try to avoid talking about Mary unless they absolutely have to.

Marian devotion is a major sticking point for evangelical Christians. Even I, having been raised as a kind of “cultural fundamentalist Christian” — I wasn’t raised to go to church or to read the Bible, but fundamentalists were all around me (that is putting it mildly) — had to “learn” to be devoted to the Blessed Mother. It wasn’t part of my “template” of Christianity, it was an “add-on” of sorts after I became explicitly Catholic. I am not nearly as steadfast in my devotion as I should be, but I do wear the Brown Scapular 24/7, so I hope that counts for a little something, anyway.
 
I think it’s important to clarify that Lutheran theology and Calvinist (or Reformed) theology both go beyond Luther’s and Calvin’s own theological writings. It can sometimes be inaccurate to suggest that one particular theological tenet expounded(or denied) by Luther or Calvin is representative of Lutheran or Reformed churches in the 21st century. Many other theologians contributed their part to the development of both churches.

In any case, Calvin did not subscribe to the Immaculate Conception. Luther was ambiguous on the matter: at times his writings explicitly support it, at times he vaguely denies it. Very few Lutheran churches today believe in the Immaculate Conception.
Opal0427 said:
So, when (& by who) did the belief Mary wasn’t concieved without sin become popular within modern Protestantism?
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Likely within the first century or so of the Protestant Reformation. Both the Lutheran Confessions (1580) and the (Reformed) Westminster Confession (1646) are omit most Mariological doctrines (except Theotokos and other early credal doctrines).
 
Bithynian said:
Luther was ambiguous on the matter: at times his writings explicitly support it, at times he vaguely denies it. Very few Lutheran churches today believe in the Immaculate Conception.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) Opal0427:
So, when (& by who) did the belief Mary wasn’t concieved without sin become popular within modern Protestantism?
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A well written post.
Two comments.
  1. it is possible to believe the Blessed Virgin receives the miracle of a sinless nature at the Visitation, which would be more in keeping with scripture: “for all have sinned…” than the I.C.
  2. regarding Mariological statements, the Formula of Concord, Solid Declaration affirms the perpetual virginity of Mary.:
On account of this personal union and communion of the natures, Mary, the most blessed Virgin, bore not a mere man, but, as the angel [Gabriel] testifies, such a man as is truly the Son of the most high God, who showed His divine majesty even in His mother’s womb, inasmuch as He was born of a virgin, with her virginity inviolate. Therefore she is truly the mother of God, and nevertheless remained a virgin.
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I know the OP is asking about Protestants, but if I understand correctly, don’t the EO reject the IC? I think they hold to the Blessed Virgin being without sin because she chose not to?
 
Opal0427 said:
So, when (& by who) did the belief Mary wasn’t concieved without sin become popular within modern Protestantism?
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To this day evangelicals rarely discuss this which is a shame. Most consider it a closed door subject. But at some point in history they simply could not find an Apostolic voice to validate any of it. Whether it was at conception or live birth, no voice of reason from within the Apostolic circle signed off. We all take Apostolic authority very seriously.
 
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tgGodsway said:
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Opal0427:
So, when (& by who) did the belief Mary wasn’t concieved without sin become popular within modern Protestantism?
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To this day evangelicals rarely discuss this which is a shame. Most consider it a closed door subject. But at some point in history they simply could not find an Apostolic voice to validate any of it. Whether it was at conception or live birth, no voice of reason from within the Apostolic circle signed off. We all take Apostolic authority very seriously.
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I always wondered if Protestants or evangelicals explain it by the Original Sin being passed on via the human father. Since Jesus didn’t have one, that’s why He didn’t have Original Sin.

I’m sure that isn’t original with me.

When you say “any apostolic voice” do you mean “in the New Testament” or rather, “in NT or the early Church”?
 
When it comes down to it, Mary’s Immaculate Conception is speculation, not commented on in scripture, and sort of at odds with the Magnificat. Best not to declare dogmatic statements on questionable speculation.
 
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