What was the source of Mohammad's Revelations?

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Eric_Hilbert said:
Stay on the topic of the OP please
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I’m sorry Eric, I know my posts sound harsh. I’m just trying to wake others to the reality. Some verses in the quaran are just not good. They promote domestic violence and I believe that is dangerous. I was just trying to protect the others, but from now on ill post on topic. 🙂
 
Violent protests left at least five dead and others wounded Wednesday as demonstrations over Quran burning intensified in Afghanistan.

……Afghans who massed outside the Bagram base Tuesday, chanting “Death to America! Death to the Afghan government! Long live Islam!”

…….Last year, when controversial Florida pastor Terry Jones presided over what he called a trial of the Quran and burned a copy, Afghans took to the streets by the thousands. In the northern Afghan city of Mazar-e Sharif, demonstrators stormed a U.N. office and killed 12 people.

…….In Kandahar, three people were killed in one demonstration, and nine in another when police and stone-throwing demonstrators clashed.
cnn.com/2012/02/22/world/asia/afghanistan-burned-qurans/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
 
PumpkinSeed said:
Women treated equally? LOL! check out what Moh said:

Qur’an (4:34) - “Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.”

Qur’an (38:44) - “And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath…”

Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being “greener” than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.

Abu Dawud (2141) - “Iyas bin ‘Abd Allah bin Abi Dhubab reported the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not beat Allah’s handmaidens, but when ‘Umar came to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them.”

So here, we see that Mohammad gives men the right to beat their wives. :blackeye: :crutches:

Qur’an (2:282) - Establishes that a woman’s testimony is worth only half that of a man’s in court

Qur’an (2:228) - “and the men are a degree above them [women]”

Bukhari (6:301) - “[Muhammad] said, ‘Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?’ They replied in the affirmative. He said, ‘This is the deficiency in her intelligence.’”

Muslim (4:1039) - “A’isha said [to Muhammad]: ‘You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses’”

**And here we see that Mohammad says women are less intelligent than men and our worth is only half of a mans. :ehh: :dts:
**
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I am not defending Muslims, but I did want to say something about these verses. So much is in the translation. For example, you mentioned 4:34. In the Ali Translation, it says: As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill conduct admonish them first, refuse to share beds second, and, at last, beat them (lightly).

Now, I am opposed to beating anyone, but is this any different than old laws in the West where a man could beat his wife for adultery?

38:44 has nothing to do with beating anyone.

2:282 does not say a woman’s testimony is worth half. It says bring two women so that one can remind the other should she forget.

I do not have the other references, but if you interpreted them as you did the Koran, I think they are equally suspect.

Again, I am not Muslim, not will I be Muslim. I type this with the ashes from today;s Mass on my forehead. I just want fairness.
 
I believe that a demon or possibly Satan himself was the source of Mohammad’s revelations. Yes, there is some truth in the Koran but not much. And besides, Satan or a demon would have couched falsehoods in with some truth in order to make it less suspect to someone who might otherwise realize that this was coming from a demon or Satan. But anyway, I believe that the Koran’s source is Satan and the Hadith’s source is also Satan.
 
TexanKnight said:
Now, I am opposed to beating anyone, but is this any different than old laws in the West where a man could beat his wife for adultery?
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The clear difference is that the old laws in the West did not claim the authority of Divine revelation- That’s why they are all abolished and no longer applicable. 🤷 Now, when the Almighty says you can beat up your wife for disloyalty or ill conduct, that has far graver (and long-lasting) consequences for the wives of Muslims than some old law in the West has for anyone. One is just some societally made rule, the other is the unchangeable word of Almighty God.

It also shows that cultural norms went into play in the making of the Quran, contrary to Muslim beliefs that Absolutely EVERYTHING in the Quran is the VERBATIM speech of God, as opposed to being simply inspired by God.
 
TexanKnight said:
I am not defending Muslims, but I did want to say something about these verses. So much is in the translation. For example, you mentioned 4:34. In the Ali Translation, it says: As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill conduct admonish them first, refuse to share beds second, and, at last, beat them (lightly).

Now, I am opposed to beating anyone, but is this any different than old laws in the West where a man could beat his wife for adultery?

38:44 has nothing to do with beating anyone.

2:282 does not say a woman’s testimony is worth half. It says bring two women so that one can remind the other should she forget.

I do not have the other references, but if you interpreted them as you did the Koran, I think they are equally suspect.

Again, I am not Muslim, not will I be Muslim. I type this with the ashes from today;s Mass on my forehead. I just want fairness.
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38:44 does have to do with beating. Mohammad was instructing him to beat her.
The testimony thing is mocking a womans intelligence. The quaran does say that a man is worth more than a woman. I am not going to go searching for every single verse. And by the way, it was also noted in the quaran that Mohammad has hit his wives

I have muslim friends who speak arabic. They already confirmed that these verses are true.
 
Marybeloved said:
The clear difference is that the old laws in the West did not claim the authority of Divine revelation- That’s why they are all abolished and no longer applicable. 🤷 Now, when the Almighty says you can beat up your wife for disloyalty or ill conduct, that has far graver (and long-lasting) consequences for the wives of Muslims than some old law in the West has for anyone. One is just some societally made rule, the other is the unchangeable word of Almighty God.

It also shows that cultural norms went into play in the making of the Quran, contrary to Muslim beliefs that Absolutely EVERYTHING in the Quran is the VERBATIM speech of God, as opposed to being simply inspired by God.
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“Submission” to the law…very telling. It takes no prisoners, the good muslims are just as much victims. Its disturbing really, the change has to come from within through choice.

No-one can be forced to change. The need may very well be there, but the desire must be reached.
 
Marybeloved said:
The clear difference is that the old laws in the West did not claim the authority of Divine revelation- That’s why they are all abolished and no longer applicable. 🤷 Now, when the Almighty says you can beat up your wife for disloyalty or ill conduct, that has far graver (and long-lasting) consequences for the wives of Muslims than some old law in the West has for anyone. One is just some societally made rule, the other is the unchangeable word of Almighty God.

It also shows that cultural norms went into play in the making of the Quran, contrary to Muslim beliefs that Absolutely EVERYTHING in the Quran is the VERBATIM speech of God, as opposed to being simply inspired by God.
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Hmmm…the laws of the old west were based on the Bible…anyone ever read the OT?
 
TexanKnight said:
Hmmm…the laws of the old west were based on the Bible…anyone ever read the OT?
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I have (read the OT) and I’ll be mighty glad for you to show me just one verse in the OT where a husband gets to beat his wife for adultery. 🤷 Just because people say laws are based on the Bible doesn’t mean they are. They could be based on the Bible in so far as determining what is forbidden in the society and outlawing what God considers grave sin. But this Law here which you’re (very wrongly) attempting to attribute to the Bible is about husbands having the right to beat their wives for that grave sin. I’m yet to meet it anywhere in the Bible.

The Quranic verse in Question is not just a rule in an Islamic society claimed to be based on the Quran but a rule of the Quran itself, binding on anyone who believes that this book is the verbatim speech of Almighty God.
 
PumpkinSeed said:
38:44 does have to do with beating. Mohammad was instructing him to beat her.
The testimony thing is mocking a womans intelligence. The quaran does say that a man is worth more than a woman. I am not going to go searching for every single verse. And by the way, it was also noted in the quaran that Mohammad has hit his wives

I have muslim friends who speak arabic. They already confirmed that these verses are true.
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I work in a place where the majority are Muslim and speak either Arabic or Farsi. They all say you wrong.
 
Marybeloved said:
I have (read the OT) and I’ll be mighty glad for you to show me just one verse in the OT where a husband gets to beat his wife for adultery. 🤷 Just because people say laws are based on the Bible doesn’t mean they are. They could be based on the Bible in so far as determining what is forbidden in the society and outlawing what God considers grave sin. But this Law here which you’re (very wrongly) attempting to attribute to the Bible is about husbands having the right to beat their wives for that grave sin. I’m yet to meet it anywhere in the Bible.

The Quranic verse in Question is not just a rule in an Islamic society claimed to be based on the Quran but a rule of the Quran itself, binding on anyone who believes that this book is the verbatim speech of Almighty God.
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Man…you need to read it better. See who can be stoned, hands cut off, etc.

The OT is brutal
 
TexanKnight said:
Man…you need to read it better. See who can be stoned, hands cut off, etc.

The OT is brutal
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First, Red-herring argument. The point wasn’t brutality of the OT versus the Quran but the latter’s assigning of rights to MEN to corporeally punish their wives for wrongs against themselves.

Second, No- YOU need to read it better before shooting off claims. Stoned by who? Determined by who? The Criminal Laws of Israel applied to everyone equally- male and female, and guilt was determined by a Court (the Sanhedrin).

Still have to show me what you claimed. Where in the OT does a man get to inflict physical punishment on his wife for adultery or any other wrongs against himself? Thanks. 👍
 
Marybeloved said:
First, Red-herring argument. The point wasn’t brutality of the OT versus the Quran but the latter’s assigning of rights to MEN to corporeally punish their wives for wrongs against themselves.

Second, No- YOU need to read it better before shooting off claims. Stoned by who? Determined by who? The Criminal Laws of Israel applied to everyone equally- male and female, and guilt was determined by a Court (the Sanhedrin).

Still have to show me what you claimed. Where in the OT does a man get to inflict physical punishment on his wife for adultery or any other wrongs against himself? Thanks. 👍
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It was not a red herring argument. I simply said you need to read the OT. I stand by that. Have you read the Koran? I ask because it appears you have even read the OT
 
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